Warcraft battle - WIP

#6

Thanks for the very lengthy and specific feedback, Adam!

Please don’t hesitate to give comments and opinions like that. I don’t find it discouraging at all, but critical feedback like that really lights a fire under my ass and it psyches me to go out and improve my animations. I’m going to address as many of those notes you gave me, and let’s see if I can knock out another pass tonight before I have to go back to work tomorrow.

I like that sample of Astaroth… someday I’ll figure out how to rig and constrain weapons in a way that allows the characters to spin and twirl their weapons.

#7

Here’s a new pass that I got out last night. It’s not quite there, but I thought I’d just put up my progress.

[vimeo]25411187[/vimeo]

I’m trying to get some more realistic and weighty axe swings for the orc, and I’m playing around with that part a lot. I like the new motions, but I’m not satisfied with it though - they just feel off and too uniform somehow. I intend to just capture some key poses, and completely redo the inbetweens of that first two swings.

The elf’s launch in the head kick also needs work, I think. I’m gonna redo his spine arching for sure. Will work on those again either tonight or tomorrow night.

In the meantime, are there any other issues that you think I should try to resolve?

#8

For more weight on the axe, let the hand lead the action while the axe head drags along. Find reference of log splitting.

Yes your swings are looking linear, as the orc swings down, the spacing of the axe should increase.

#9

Hey drewpan o/

Well, just saw your new pass and I see that the Soul Calibur reference really helped. I see some more brutal movements in the orc, especially in the first scenes. The very exagerated reaction of the elf helps to bring that impact shine some more. a change that can be perceived throughout the whole animation, so… it’s better than the first pass.

But it’s still with some problems, and the advices of desmondying are really great. It’s mostly a problem with timing and spacing, some actions are faster than they should. I remeber that cinematics from Starcraft 2 called “Old Rivals”. Zeratul’s moves there are really slow, and that’s mostly because of his old age and body mass. So, I keep thinking that some more contrast would help a lot to distinct those characters. I feel that the first scene got many improvements, but the others not so much. For example, see the scene that the orc slams the elf’s head in the wall. Those two slams are too quick, somehow that looks unreal for me, specially for a orc.

But well, that’s just my opinion. ^^ I don’t have much time right now to actually look and discuss some things further mroe, but with the next time i’ll try to study those points with you more deeply =]

Until then, keep up the good work man o/

#10

Thanks, Desmond and Adam!

With that advice about the axe swings, I’m sure the next pass will look a lot better with a greater emphasis on weight.

I’ve been concentrating on the first two shots, so I haven’t really touched the fourth shot with the head slams. I’ll be sure to retime those slams a bit and give it a few more frames each. I do agree that they feel a bit too zippy at the moment.

Hope I can finalize the axe swings in the next pass!

#11

Hi guys!

I’ve gotten a new pass out! Hopefully this addresses that dreaded weighted and hefty axe issue that that was really bringing it down before. I’ve also slowed down the orc attacks throughout the scene, so hopefully that should contrast the two characters a bit more.

Here it is:

[vimeo]25596604[/vimeo]

#12

There’s definitely better flow with the attack sequence. The deflection of the sword and it hitting the ground looks really nice.

I’m kinda iffy with the choice of having both weapons fly off close to the camera; reminds me of over-selling “3d movies” with things flying towards you every other scene. Just the sword would’ve been good.

The timing of the first strike is also a little off. The axe fall took a while before it stopped after striking the sword. Instead of the axe getting deflected or him deliberately going for a second attack, it looked more like the orc tried to slow down his attack halfway. Like if you were waving a heavy object up and down.

Attack-wise, if would be more efficient if instead of following the same arc up and down, you get the axe to sweep slightly to the side after the strike. This motion should divert some of the forward momentum and help you in pulling the axe back up without having to slow it down first.

#13

Excellent work. I especially like the timely camera changes.

#14

Thanks, RustEdge! Those were pretty good points, and I’m gonna think about that. I originally intended only for the sword to fly past the camera, but then I included the axe to 1) really sell the notion that he lost his axe, and 2) help smooth the transition from one shot to the other.

As for the first axe clash, yeah I did feel that it was a bit weird too, but couldn’t work out why. Your observation and suggestion really helped put some perspective on that, so I’m gonna try your advice.

Thanks!

#15

Here’s a new pass, along with a question for you guys.

[vimeo]25894348[/vimeo]

I’ve added some slo-mo elements into the scene, and now I’m debating whether to include some zooms for some more dramatic camera angles. My concern is that since I’m primarily doing this for a demo-reel, should I show more of the animation, or should I gun for tighter and nicer camera angles, which might crop out some of the animation - like the footwork for example.

What do you guys think?

#16

Proper blocking within the camera’s view is part of animation, so I’d say it’s fine adding some zooms. Right now you lose a lot of intensity of the battle because of your camera moves. The camera moves too constantly. It doesn’t feel like you’re actually there in the battlefield watching them fight.

I have an issue with the slow-mo moment though. The camera speed before, during, and after the slo-mo is pretty constant. It makes it feel like the characters have slowed down but everything else around them feels like they’re moving at a normal rate.

#17

Thanks, RustEdge!

I’m probably going to redo the camera in the first shot, and try to do more close-ups and cuts instead of pans/tilts.

As for the slo-mo, I made sure to stretch out the camera’s keyframes exactly the same way as the character keyframes, so I’m not sure why it still looks constant. Hopefully this will be somewhat changed with the camera zoom tweaks.

#18

Here’s a new pass, with new camera angles and a new ending shot (now with dialogue!)

Question: The final head stomp (x498) - slo-mo or no slo-mo?

[vimeo]26092382[/vimeo]

#19

Hey Drewpan o/ how you’re doing? =]

So, I was unable to take some time to reply the topic, but i kept looking for the animations when I could. Sorry for now too I cannot write a more extensive post, but i can point out some tips =].

At this point I think you consider the animation ready, so, I’m not going to comment about it for, really, it’s looking nice for it’s purpose and if it was to make more changes, it’s better to go for a new scene by now =].

But, you would want to consider the focus of you doing this. These last posts are more about the cinematography of the scene then to the actual movement of the action. So, if your plan is to get an overall nice and dinamic scene, it’s ok, but as you asked if the camera movements would take the attention of the animation, the aswer is yes. It’s not something that reeeeally is distracting, but again, it depends on your focus.

And now about the scene… I think it’s looking great thus far =]. I must agreed with rustedge for that slow motion does look weird. It’s not about stretching the keyframes, because the beauty of the slow motions is to capture the inifitely small movements we do. I became very aware of that in an awesome scene from the movie: “cloudy with a chance of meatballs” (unfortunally i could not find it on youtube), but the focus is to show that for a split of second, the main character sees his father in the middle of the crowd watching his failure. It’s really, really detailed in micromovements, and thus reside it’s beauty. Details.

So, maybe creating some extra poses for more extreme and dramatic look might help. For the last scene, I think that would look nice a slow motion, but only if it maintains the brutal impact of it =].

That’s it man, sorry if I could not be more specific… i’m actually pretty ill and must return to bed now o/

Good work and keep up the good work man o/

#20

Thanks, Adam! Always appreciate your feedback and comments. Moreso since you’re so ill.

As for the focus on cinematography, well… it’s mainly cos I haven’t gotten much feedback lately about the animation at all. Most (if not all) of the feedback I’ve gotten from folks at this point has been about the cinematography, so that’s pretty much what I’ve been addressing. If there were any more animation issues, I’d be sure to resolve those too.

Though I think you’re right… at this point I might just clean up some camera placements, throw in a light or two to counter all that backlighting, and then call it a day and start on something new.

I’ve got a dramatic pantomime that that I’d REALLY like to get out of my head and onto the screen.

Get well soon, Adam!

#21

If you want a good reference for your animation, here’s a tip:

Try wearing a bulky suit, something like american football gear, or even just pillows strapped to your shoulders, arms, and upper torso. Then try acting out the motions your orc is doing. Right now he doesn’t move like an orc; he moves like a large person. Orcs in WoW are very muscular, but their gear and some of their bulk aren’t balanced (observe some of the pre-rendered intros/cutscenes included in the WoW installation). That’s why when they attack, it looks like they’re wasting a lot of energy, just to compensate for all the weight moving all over the place. There’s a sense of lag/charge-up whenever they do something. Same logic goes for heavy mechs, golems, beasts, and the like.

As for the elf, they’re often portrayed like highly agile humans, so videos of fast martial arts styles/ parkour should be enough.

You might look weird to people around you, but acting things out helps A LOT. You can feel how parts of your body moves, and together with watching videos that can help you translate those motions to your 3d model.

I actually have a NERF sword an a couple of jury-rigged metal rulers just to act out things like that. Good for LARP, and good for animation reference.

#22

Hey Rustedge!

Yeah I think a problem I had was the orc model. I tried to adjust the Goon rig to be as big and bulky as possible, but that’s about as much as I could do, so I couldn’t really visualize it being that bulky and slow. I thought it’d just look silly if it was thin but slow.

Still, what you said about acting it out makes perfect sense. I’ve got a couple of foam bats that I’ve been swinging around in my room, though I didn’t really have anything to simulate the armor. That might’ve been where I went wrong there.

Thanks!

#23

I primarily use C4D for my 3d work, so I can’t comment step-by-step about modifying the Goon rig.
Just create some basic geometry and parent them to your rig, the same way you parented armor to it. This should let you create a good-enough proxy until you can properly re-mesh the rig.

#24

Well I finally got a new pass up. There aren’t too many changes - mainly a couple of new camera angles, and a new soundtrack by a sound designer named Mikkel Nielsen. After this, I’m gonna let go for a bit and concentrate on new clips.

Hope you guys like it!

[vimeo]27486484[/vimeo]

#25

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