Vray vs. C4D Physical Render Engine


#65

Here’s my thoughts, for what it’s worth:

  • Vray the rendering engine, developed by Chaos Group, is battle tested and simply awesome.

  • Vray4C4D, which is not developed by Chaos Group, has many bugs, strange behaviors and broken features that never seem to get fixed. Instead, the tiny dev team has been working on the next release for something like 2 years and they refuse to update customers on when the update/fixes are coming. Admittedly, they are having to overhaul the whole damned thing but still, their refusal to be more candid about updates has created a huge thread of angry users on their website.

  • This delay is a problem because they’ve promised that it will fix so many current issues, but it also shows that the dev team isn’t setting milestones and time tables, and sticking to them. That’s a scary thought when you’re about to hand them $1k and rely on their product to make your living.

  • About that thread of angry users on their website I just mentioned - you can’t access that thread, or any other meaningful info on their website, because it’s all hidden away until after you pay $1k for a license. Until you pay, you wouldn’t know people have been having these problems and have been waiting so long for an update. I don’t think Stefan is a dishonest man, I’m sure these forums are hidden away so they don’t waste time providing support to people who just pirated the software, etc. but still, between that and the lack of a demo/trial new users just have to make a leap of faith that, for now, isn’t rewarded.

  • My studio was asking the same questions you are, but lacking a demo we bought a single license to test. Stefan was VERY responsive to support emails, there is no question that he stays on top of support and is very helpful. But for us, that wasn’t enough to overcome the sketchy feeling we got from the whole affair so we’re back to just using C4D’s physical renderer. There are studios out there doing great work with it (like Aixsponza) so obviously results will vary.


#66

that is not really true, everybody can register in the forum, it is public, linked direct on the webpage (vrayforc4d.com), and can access the update info thread, as well as any other threads. thats was and is so. there we post regularly the things we work on and inform users or whoever is interested on the state of the update progress. so nothing is hidden, all can read all infos, user’s posts and threads, we try to be very transparent.
the render engine (V-Ray core) used is developed by Chaosgroup.

                                              that the wait, which was longer than our initial plan until these new features are ready, is of course not nice (also not for us) that is clear. still the work has to be done to make those wished features possible within the c4d sdk. the last update with fixes  and new vray core 2.35 (from Chaosgroup) had been not so long ago in late November by the way, fixing most known bugs. several other fix updates the months before. We try to give updates whenever possible. Our team and chaosgroup work continuous on the software. Our dev team is one of the biggest among the c4d plugins and engines.
          
                                            also maxon or other companies don't tell you their internal dates of releases or planned features of forthcoming releases (for good reasons, as in all software things can change, tend to take longer, etc). we tell and show the users at least what we work on. that we do not publish a date, doesnst mean we have no time plans and milestones. we try to give as much info as possible, and to bring in as many features as possible to c4d. over time we will have same as maya or max vray, thats why we do the big update work atm.  which engine one prefer or what you need greatly depends on what you make overall obviously.
                                              
                                              Stefan
                                              vrayforc4d.com

#67

Stefan:

Can you please comment on the lack of a trial/demo version of VrayforC4D? I can’t remember the last time a piece of software I was interested in buying didn’t offer that important test option.

Thanks.


#68

the last demo was used to make a fully working crack sadly which did cost us many. the current versions around we recognize due some things.
at the moment we have full work on the update, after that we might see for better/saver systems, we have some ideas. bigger studios can get test drives by the way via contracts (we reserve the right to decide by case though)

      there  are also other software without by the way, zbrush i think stopped their demos 2 years ago, and some cad apps have no classic demo options (for similar reasons all i guess)

#69

I can only imagine how difficult it must be to combat the pirates out there. Unfortunately, that’s just part of the business now, and so too is competition. There’s no better way to make a decision on software, than hands-on. But without the option, I’ll likely look elsewhere for my rendering needs.


#70

What info thread are you referring to?

The only thread in the News & Announcements section of your forum with ANY recent activity is a Merry Christmas thread that’s 2 years old. In that thread, you point people to what you call the “main update thread” for more information, but the link you provide leads to a locked forum that is fully inaccessible to users who don’t have valid serial numbers. You even say in that post “and please update your user data, the serial is missing yet. this is needed to use this forum.”

The link below points to the thread I’m referring to above:

http://forum.vrayforc4d.com/showthread.php?t=10905&page=5

The problem here is that most pros look at the forums for given software to get a sense of how large and active the user community is, what kinds of issues they are reporting and how happy they seem in general with the software. If you lock support threads away behind a wall that requires a serial number, you are cheating prospective clients out of the opportunity to decide if your software will work for them. Doubly so if you don’t offer a trial/demo.


#71

by all respect, what you say is wrong. nothing is locked, what you say is not right. i dont understand what you say:

             every part and all threads of the forum are visible -  to everybody who once registers (what [b]anyone can do[/b]):
             [http://forum.vrayforc4d.com/index.php](http://forum.vrayforc4d.com/index.php)  - there are threads every day where users communicate with us. everybody can see that, nothing bad at all.
     
               >> everybody can see ALL parts of the forum, 100% of it is public , also what people ask for support, one can see all that. one can read ALL threads, not only news and announcements, the support thread is also public to everybody who registers. no serial needed! hundreds of non users look at it every week,
              one can see all, and see what users ask or for what they need help.
example (register once) :[http://forum.vrayforc4d.com/showthread.php?t=12680&page=25](http://forum.vrayforc4d.com/showthread.php?t=12680&page=25)
            
            it is very important to us to have as much transparency as possible.
               
               only [b]posting [/b]is limited to real legal users, only legal users get support, dont mix that up (your account is locked for reasons you know). for posting you need valid user data& serial, NOT to read it. all is free readable.[i][b] nothing hidden.
               [/b][/i]
               regards
               stefan
              vrayforc4d.com

#72

Stefan:

I registered with your forum, and yet BOTH the “General” and “Support” sections are listed as “PRIVATE”. Not only can I not post anything, but I can’t even read a single thread.

So, I’m not sure what you are talking about.

But let’s take a step back. I’m obviously a perspective customer. But with no demo, and no easy access to forum dialogue, how do you think that affects my decision to invest in your product?

This was never intended to be an attack thread (anyone can read from the beginning to see). But as the discussion has evolved, it has brought some issues to light.


#73

He’s right, and I also have to chime in that when I do log into the forums as a user, I’m still not seeing any recent pertinent threads. It’s like they’re all hidden no matter what.


#74

i registered as a test user and can see all, [edit:seems ok working as it should,we double verified]

                    no thread is hidden Troyan, there is also no recent "pertinent" thread, not sure what is meant by that, just the main info thread on 1.5. where we talk with our users.

and the normal users threads.
everybody can read it and see the infos and post

                    we [b]do not hide any [/b]threads
                  this is the info thread: [http://forum.vrayforc4d.com/showthread.php?t=12680&page=25](http://forum.vrayforc4d.com/showthread.php?t=12680&page=25)
           if you are registered fully and logged in you see all threads. as said everybody can register it took me 30 seconds to register.
      
      cheers
      Stefan
                     
                     p.s sneathers, i verified, "registered users are set to "view forum"so shoudl work, [b]did you confirm the email you get when registering? this is essential[/b]. it seems sneather you did not fully register yet if you didn't click on the verification emails link.
             i just double checked and as normal registered user[b] one does see all.[/b]
                 
                 p.s.s.: we verified and for sure all work as should. all is visible.
             it is as said important to click on the verification email you get when registering(check spam in case).
                 
                 here i logged in as a fresh registered "testuser", what you see is the 1.5 info thread:
                 
                 [img]http://images-stefan.s3.amazonaws.com/06.06.png[/img]

#75

Yep, I’m seeing everything now. I’m not saying you were hiding anything, I was saying last week when I logged in to look at threads I wasn’t seeing any when I checked all of the sections. Not sure what the issue was then. Cheers!


#76

Tong is working on a vbulletin forum update to the newest version v5, maybe last week he was working at this moment you tried. so temporarily there can be short offline times in theory (or you had not been logged in for some reason) but as said the forum is and was always public and open to read for all.
we have nothing to hide.

and if one wants to see what our users produce with our software, you can also look here, (beside the forum info):

[http://www.vrayforc4d.net/portal/video-gallery/](http://www.vrayforc4d.net/portal/video-gallery/)
[http://www.vrayforc4d.net/portal/gallery](http://www.vrayforc4d.net/portal/gallery)
[https://www.facebook.com/vrayforc4d](https://www.facebook.com/vrayforc4d)


     
     Stefan

#77

Yes, I have never seen this issue before last week, but I hadn’t logged in in months, so I thought something might have happened. Looks back to normal again and everything is there, warts and all :). :beer:


#78

The thread I linked to in my previous post is still locked for me, and the main User Support section is now magically accessible (gee, wonder how that happened overnight), but there’s no visible content in the individual threads.

In my mind, this highlights the very issue I’ve been complaining about. Everything customer facing seems to be neglected - the forums don’t work properly, updates are slow coming, the software has numerous bugs, language problems and other issues, and their main website until just very recently was still showing specials from last Christmas - the list goes on.

I’m not at all trying to flame the team behind Vray4C4D, but when you pay $1k for a plugin, I think it’s reasonable to have certain expectations.


#79

Your account is locked -as you know- because you had a wrong user real name entry, thats why. It is intentional - no error (And you breached quite some forum rules, now you continue here the same way - “not flaming us” :wink: )

And you not one time reported a bug, or ask a user support question, or any other constructive post, we had only 4 posts in total from you, none pointing out to a bug.

All others normal registered users can access our forum and do see all. They can make their own picture. that was NOT overnight so, this was open all time for all registered logged in users,

i do not lie!!!

Stefan


#80

<puts on forums leader hat>
I think this is the point where further conversation on this topic should be done directly between the parties involved. Please use PMs or e-mail for this.

Further postings that are not on the original topic of this thread, will be removed!

Thanks
Björn

</hat off>


#81

As the originator of this thread, I think some of this banter has been valuable. But it was never my intention to get people’s dander up.

But I’m glad you came along, because I actually have a few Cinema-related questions for you. But I’ll keep those out of this thread.

Cheers!


#82

i sent you a PM sneather

cheers
stefan


#83

<removed>
<removed>


#84

Hi,
I believe you managed to get depth pass out of position pass till now (and I haven’t seen someone actually answered that question of yours till now), but anyway here it is:

In C4D:
Add Position Pass effect, set it to Camera, chanell order RGB, size to 2. Add Post effects in multipass also. Render as openEXR.
In Ae:
import your footage, make a comp…set your project to 32bit. interpret your openEXR to preserve RGB. Precompose your openEXR, create black solid in that precomp (set it to black, 0,001) and transfer mode to multiply. Apply curves to your openEXR and play with it until you get that blue gradient.
Next, apply frichluft depth effect to your footage, precomp being as your source depth layer. In depth buffer set it to blue channel. Set this effect from normal blur to depth buffer in order to adjust it properly with curves in precomp.
So there you go, depth pass extracted and used and it can be adjusted to your will…and, it works with physical renderer.
Hope I helped a bit.
Nesha