Vortex Methods

#5

Thanks very much for the ideas guys… greatly appreciated.

I do have PFlow Box3 as well as TP3. (Although I’m no expert with either and am trying to learn more every day with each).

The frustrating thing is that I get very, very close with each method I try but then there’s a gotcha that stops me dead. The reason I was asking about this particular method is that I’m sooooo close to making it work with all the control I need, yet it seems I have hit another impossibility.

Thanks to the helpful folks on the TP forum (thanks Goran & Joe!), I do have a working setup using Orbit (as one of many ops) but it currently doesn’t have the complete control as in this PFlow setup (particularly the taper/turns of the vortex-controlled by the helix creation stack and the animated vortex overall shape-controlled by the path deform spline). I will be revisting that TP3 setup to see if I can incorporate the spline control portion at least.

Charley, is there any particular example or tutorial that would shed light on that Box3 method? What operator(s) uses the maps to define the force? Oleg has mentioned something similar about using the Data Operator but I don’t have any examples about how to set something like this up. I’m pretty green with all things particle but if I find an example or tutorial I will be closer to figuring this out. I’m currently going through Allan McKays DVDs and have been learning a lot… thanks Allan!).

John, at this point Vallium or some particle Prozac would be nice!

Thanks again.

#6

Charley,

Thanks very much for this example… I will dissect!

Thanks again.

#7

DUDE! That is beautiful! Far more complex than I imagined (although simple I am sure as compared to some of the ops I have seen :slight_smile: ).

I was attemping to use a point position and closest point by surface. While I could get the particles to travel in the z direction get them to orbit has been beyond my comprehension.

I will have to try an figure out exactly what is going on with the function operators, Thanks Charley:)

#8

Charley,

Wow… that is impressive. But complex for my level of Data Operator knowledge.

Is there any training available for BOX3 (and Data Operator in particular) anywhere?

John,

Any chance you could upload your Data Operator loft experiment so I could dissect that too.

Thanks again.

#9

Here are a few.
http://www.orbaz.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=6

It is fairly straight forward once you learn the ‘language’ of connecting the nodes. A good way to learn is to do simple things like what you see in these tutorials, playing with the data you have access to. From there find simple mathematical formulas and start recreating those using the SubOps. Once you learn what you have access to and how to reproduce the math formulas necessary, it all starts to fall in place.

#10

It is built in max2009, if that is ok, else it will take a minute to rebuild it 2008 but haven’t got access to that machine at the moment.

#11

Charley,

Thanks very much for those links… I was unaware of those. I will definitely do those tutorials shortly.

John,

Ahhh. I forgot about the version issue. I do have 2009 but haven’t installed it yet (and don’t really plan to for a while) because changing to a new MAX version is always such a hassle what with updating MAX & plugins across 20 systems in the production pipeline and 2008 is working so well for me at the moment. I’ll do those tutorials Charley mentioned and see what I can pick up.

Do any of the CG Academy DVDs cover the BOX3 stuff?

Thanks again.

#12

Totally understandable, just testing 2k9 myself and happended to build this there, I rebuild it tomorrow when I get back to my workstation.

Chris Thomas has been talking about doing some Box#3 dvd’s for a little while. Been trying to get Charley to do one too :smiley: :wink: but as we all know free time is hard to come by. I tell you I’ll bounce on those in a second:)

#13

John,

Yea… I’d definitely buy those immediately if they were available. As well as some TP3 DVDs too!

Thanks again.

#14

I’d love to see into these files too. Unfortunately I’m in max9 :frowning:

so if anybody has time and motivation to recreate these things for max9, would make me very happy :slight_smile:
It’s a pitty that the things that have no update in newer max can’t be opened in older versions.

#15

a max9 version

#16

awesome!!tnx man :slight_smile:

#17

Excellent John. Thanks very much for this… I will examine

Thanks again.

#18

No worries:), it is still pretty rookie, but maybe something useful will come out of it.

#19

That´s awesome! i wrapping my head around tornados for weeks now (but i dont work on it every day…)

my approach was for an AfterBurn setup. I tried Krakatoa too but couldnt get the nice volume look i was after…probably because my notebook is only core duo :frowning: cant go too crazy on the particle count :frowning: John helped alot here too!!! :love:

for the krak part the neat thing is the PRT loader´s ability to be modified after caching. so i cached a vertical vortex movement without and fany bending. then loaded it into a prt loader and used a path deform for the typical tornado beding…

im running max9 still too…hurts to see all the nice posted files without being able to open them :frowning:

cheers,
anselm

#20

Here is the R9 version of what I posted earlier.

Enjoy :slight_smile:

Edit: On another note, R9 is now two version back… :smiley:

#21

Cool method with the PRT loader, going to try that out :smiley:

#22

lol, nice thread…

i wish to learn about PFtool box and TP …
one of you knows a good links and tutorial to start with both ??

and if is possible,
tell me a method using standard PFLow to get a Vortex.

i´ll keep my eyes in here.

---- *EDIT -------

i remember my first Vortex tutorial :

http://www.computerarts.co.uk/tutorials/premium_content/3d__and__animation/assisted_twister

=P
haha…

#23

i´m not sure if it is a good idea to start learning two strong particle tools simultaniously…

to get a vortex motion going u need a fore operator and obviously a vortex fore. then add this in the GUI of the fore operator. there are plenty of scene files around. i did some r&d and afer an hour i had about 5-10 max files people posted. search forums…

cheers,
anselm

#24

OK… after a long hiatus, I’m back in vortex-ville.

I have done the Box3 tutorials that Charley mentioned (and gained a bit of insight from them) and I have examined Charley’s tornado example closely. I have reorganized the data flow to make it easier to look at and understand for my meager abilities. I have also renamed some items as well (again… to make it easier to understand). But I’m at that brain-fried point of the day where I feel like I understood more several hours ago than I do now.

The vortex setup is working pretty well (thanks Charley for this example!) but I am trying to grasp all aspects of how it works.

I am currently trying to grasp how the B/W gradient ramps influence where the particles go. I understand how the nearest surface point to the particle location is sampled but do particles always want to go in a particular luminance direction? Like from their current dark position to a lighter position next? Or is there a setting that says which luminance value defines the next direction?

I don’t really understand the difference (or need) between the ‘Point Color’ op and the 3 ‘Point Color Gradient’ ops. I know the point color gradient ops are to sample the gradient and build vectors but I’m not sure why the ‘Point Color’ is needed to do this?

I understand what Charley was saying about the need for 2 circumference maps to avoid stopping at the seam but I’m having a hard time visualizing how the passing off between the maps makes for infinite travel around the cone.

Any layman’s explanation of how some of this stuff works would be very helpful.

Attached is my MAX2008_32 modified version of Charley’s file.

Thanks!