Vortex Methods

#1

If you open the attached MAX2008_32 file, you will see an animated dummy moving across the screen. Linked to the dummy is a spline. Also linked to the dummy are two helix splines which are path deformed to the first spline. The Path Deforms have their rotation animated and the result is a rotating vortex that follows an object. In addition, the first spline acts as a control object of the two vortices splines… this allows me to animate (using either vertex animation or linked XForm animation) this control spline and change the shape of the vortices. All this works fine and gives me the control I need.

I setup a PFlow that uses Speed by Icons and the 2 icons are set to path constraint to the 2 helixes. As long as there is no animation on the control spline, the particles follow the helix paths perfectly. But when the control spline verts are animated (to change the overall shape of the helixes) the particles no longer properly follow the helix paths and drift off in the middle of the paths.

Does anyone know of another method to get this exact control of the vortices but have the particles properly follow the helix paths?

Thanks!

#2

There is a fairly simple Box3 method using Gradient Maps to define Speed direction where you can take a Renderable Spline (need a Mesh Select to be used by PF) with a series of nested materials (multi-subobj) with one gradient defining the along length of spline direction and two others defining the rotation around the spline. You need two materials to go continouosly around because the particles will stop where the Gradient white meets the black, so you offset one and continuously swap between the two as the particles go around.

#3

Cool approach Mike:)

I have been beating my head against my desk since we last talked about this.

I have been trying to build a box#3 op (unsuccessfully I might add), using a gradient map but obvisously I missed the fact that you need 3.

Of course Charley says its simple:D

I noticed thinking particles has a tornado in the sample files “TP_OP_Orbit_PathPosition.max”
, mmmnn Orbit ORBIT OORRBIT, what a great operator.

Still fact of the matter box#3 is my only option. So more advil please:)

#4

This is a slightly more complex version, but it is specifically made to create a tornado type effect. There is an unexposed value in the Data Op that control the radial pull (think Vortex space warp) that is set to an auto adjustment here. That could be exposed to give user control as well as tied to the the Gradient Map if desired.

To keep continuity at sharper curves along the length, you need to increase the subdivisions (or use a turboSmooth)

Also, as it is now, the Integration Step impacts the degree of accuracy for the orbit meaning that a smaller step results in a tighter orbit (keep in mind of your viewport step is not the same as your render step).

Attached is a 2008 Max file.

#5

Thanks very much for the ideas guys… greatly appreciated.

I do have PFlow Box3 as well as TP3. (Although I’m no expert with either and am trying to learn more every day with each).

The frustrating thing is that I get very, very close with each method I try but then there’s a gotcha that stops me dead. The reason I was asking about this particular method is that I’m sooooo close to making it work with all the control I need, yet it seems I have hit another impossibility.

Thanks to the helpful folks on the TP forum (thanks Goran & Joe!), I do have a working setup using Orbit (as one of many ops) but it currently doesn’t have the complete control as in this PFlow setup (particularly the taper/turns of the vortex-controlled by the helix creation stack and the animated vortex overall shape-controlled by the path deform spline). I will be revisting that TP3 setup to see if I can incorporate the spline control portion at least.

Charley, is there any particular example or tutorial that would shed light on that Box3 method? What operator(s) uses the maps to define the force? Oleg has mentioned something similar about using the Data Operator but I don’t have any examples about how to set something like this up. I’m pretty green with all things particle but if I find an example or tutorial I will be closer to figuring this out. I’m currently going through Allan McKays DVDs and have been learning a lot… thanks Allan!).

John, at this point Vallium or some particle Prozac would be nice!

Thanks again.

#6

Charley,

Thanks very much for this example… I will dissect!

Thanks again.

#7

DUDE! That is beautiful! Far more complex than I imagined (although simple I am sure as compared to some of the ops I have seen :slight_smile: ).

I was attemping to use a point position and closest point by surface. While I could get the particles to travel in the z direction get them to orbit has been beyond my comprehension.

I will have to try an figure out exactly what is going on with the function operators, Thanks Charley:)

#8

Charley,

Wow… that is impressive. But complex for my level of Data Operator knowledge.

Is there any training available for BOX3 (and Data Operator in particular) anywhere?

John,

Any chance you could upload your Data Operator loft experiment so I could dissect that too.

Thanks again.

#9

Here are a few.
http://www.orbaz.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=6

It is fairly straight forward once you learn the ‘language’ of connecting the nodes. A good way to learn is to do simple things like what you see in these tutorials, playing with the data you have access to. From there find simple mathematical formulas and start recreating those using the SubOps. Once you learn what you have access to and how to reproduce the math formulas necessary, it all starts to fall in place.

#10

It is built in max2009, if that is ok, else it will take a minute to rebuild it 2008 but haven’t got access to that machine at the moment.

#11

Charley,

Thanks very much for those links… I was unaware of those. I will definitely do those tutorials shortly.

John,

Ahhh. I forgot about the version issue. I do have 2009 but haven’t installed it yet (and don’t really plan to for a while) because changing to a new MAX version is always such a hassle what with updating MAX & plugins across 20 systems in the production pipeline and 2008 is working so well for me at the moment. I’ll do those tutorials Charley mentioned and see what I can pick up.

Do any of the CG Academy DVDs cover the BOX3 stuff?

Thanks again.

#12

Totally understandable, just testing 2k9 myself and happended to build this there, I rebuild it tomorrow when I get back to my workstation.

Chris Thomas has been talking about doing some Box#3 dvd’s for a little while. Been trying to get Charley to do one too :smiley: :wink: but as we all know free time is hard to come by. I tell you I’ll bounce on those in a second:)

#13

John,

Yea… I’d definitely buy those immediately if they were available. As well as some TP3 DVDs too!

Thanks again.

#14

I’d love to see into these files too. Unfortunately I’m in max9 :frowning:

so if anybody has time and motivation to recreate these things for max9, would make me very happy :slight_smile:
It’s a pitty that the things that have no update in newer max can’t be opened in older versions.

#15

a max9 version

#16

awesome!!tnx man :slight_smile:

#17

Excellent John. Thanks very much for this… I will examine

Thanks again.

#18

No worries:), it is still pretty rookie, but maybe something useful will come out of it.

#19

That´s awesome! i wrapping my head around tornados for weeks now (but i dont work on it every day…)

my approach was for an AfterBurn setup. I tried Krakatoa too but couldnt get the nice volume look i was after…probably because my notebook is only core duo :frowning: cant go too crazy on the particle count :frowning: John helped alot here too!!! :love:

for the krak part the neat thing is the PRT loader´s ability to be modified after caching. so i cached a vertical vortex movement without and fany bending. then loaded it into a prt loader and used a path deform for the typical tornado beding…

im running max9 still too…hurts to see all the nice posted files without being able to open them :frowning:

cheers,
anselm

#20

Here is the R9 version of what I posted earlier.

Enjoy :slight_smile:

Edit: On another note, R9 is now two version back… :smiley: