Vancouver Film School

#1450

I will be attending in June 2011 as well - can’t wait!

#1451

I wonder this too and it was not answered.

Actually, I wonder a lot of things, even after reading almost all pages. I am not sure if I should ask here or make a new topic.

Anyway, his question is the most important for me. I already work as a generalist here in brazil, and I am satisfied with the jobs I can get. But I am not, by far, satisfied to the quality of my work. My only reason to be attending VFS (or another school) would be to get out of there with an improvement to my work that I could not have done by myself.

Now, I am not like the majority of the people I saw posting here. I am already 30 years old and it is not my mother or father or loans that are going to pay it. It would be the savings of my entire life. I will finally have money to do one of this 2 things:

-Spend up to 5 years here in brazil by myself, without having to worry about work or freelancing, trying to improve my work by myself, like I have always done, but with a time to dedicate myself that I never had (and so far I have not got very far)

  • Trust in a school overseas to provide me what I could not do by myself, and return without any money.

I understand that no one but myself can answer this question. And I can not answer it either. Both might fail for many reasons. But I ask those who attended VFS or other school like that if the way that the content is passed to students will allow me not to spend time learning what I already know or I do not need and maximize the skills I already have/want to have.

Someone said back here that you spend 3 months learning what is a polygon and 6 months making your reel. Am I going to pay about 70 thousand dollars to learn for 3 months then?

Understand that I am not saying that I would not learn a lot reviewing the basics and making my reel. But I believe this kind of thing I can do alone. I would not like to pay to review basics and create a reel, I would like to pay for a pedagogic methodology, for planned steps created by people with prior knowledge. To explain better, I want to pay for the exact thing I saw many people here complaining; for the lack of freedom. I want someone I trust to tell me what to do, how to do it and when to do it. Because they know better then I. But only if this will really improve my work. If I can really trust they can help me.

That being explained, I ask if VFS is the right place for me. And if there are other options I could have. The other options I studied so far:

-Think Tank, but they are too oriented to modelling, and I wanted to focus more on rendering and effects. Anyone here went there? Can I have VFS level of rendering and effects there? Also, it is 20 thousand dollars cheaper then VFS. I could go there and still come back with some money.

-Lost Boys, but despite very good reviews around here, the student reels seems to be very weak. Most of them I could do myself. And I can not find the price. Does anyone knows? And would I have to do a lot of filming stuff? Is this really useful to learn the 3d part?

-Others, they are either in non english schools, are more then 2 years long or are in the United states. I really do not think I can get a vista for that country without too much trouble. Is there another good school I could go to that is less then 2 years?

There are many other questions, but I am trying not to be too confusing. So that is it for now.

If it helps anyone analyse my case, here is my reel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV-uzAzOXuw

I do not consider it good, but there are many students reels in many schools that are not better. If I will spent my whole savings, I should at least expect to get better then this, right?

And I will talk tomorrow by phone with an advisor. But I expect a lot of marketing talk. I come here looking for honesty the advisor probably can not give me.

#1452

Hey Guismo, i saw your reel, and i think you would not get a lot of improvement by getting into a regular program, you should use that money to get into something like advance workshops online, like those master classes gnomon had some months ago, because if you go to school you’ll get basic stuff and then you are going to pay a hell of a lot of money to polish your reel for 7 months or whatever, something you could do on your own and by watching your reel i dont think getting the basics again would help you at all…

So bottom line… stay at home, get into advance online workshops, improve yourself as much as you can, set the bar up as high as you can, challenge yourself as you never did before.

But all this is just my opinion… a 18 old animation student. : )

#1453

I agree with Jesse92. Looking at your reel, you wont get nearly $60,000 worth of improvement. VFS does not teach effects simulations (fluids, particles, cloth, etc…). Take gnomon’s master classes and practice traditional art skills.

The benefits of going to vfs for you would probably be:

  • motivation to work 12 hours a day 7 days a week for a year
  • practice
  • being surrounded by peers all day every day

The teachers are great and they know a lot. The question would be how much of that knowledge you could absorb. You have to keep in mind that the program is designed for people who have never touched 3d before. It can be frustrating if you have experience, you will learn almost nothing new from classes in the first 6 months. You have to spend time after the classes doing your learning.

#1454

Thanks a huge lot for your opinions guys. I am kind of sad with that, as this idea of going to vancouver to get a “magical touch” that would make my work better was getting me quite excited. But this is a lot of money for a vague hope.

  • motivation to work 12 hours a day 7 days a week for a year
  • practice
  • being surrounded by peers all day every day

Yes, that is what I think as well. But you know what? There is another place where you can get that. The place where I learned most of what I know. At work. After I got a little portfolio, I went to sĂŁo paulo and was fortunate enough to be accepted in a studio where I would get exactly that. Lots of talented people around me, lots of work, lots of motivation (besides income and not being fired).

Unfortunately sĂŁo paulo is one of the most disgusting cities in the world, and most jobs that will make me learn are there. I do not consider any human being should live there, not even for learning.

So… I guess I will try that; spend some time studying at home with online classes and/or look for another job to learn in a city I can live in.

This is probably not the topic for it; but with this portfolio, can I get a temporary job in some country? Canada for instance? Maybe as a trainee or something. If there is any studio that would hire me (there probably is, if I can get hired here), would it be possible legally?

Spend 6 months, 1 year or so working somewhere. Any advice on that?
Not that I could not do it here in brazil. But big cities around here use to be really horrible and uncivilized places. But then again, this would be temporary. So maybe I could go back to são paulo…

But in any way, your opinions were what I needed to hear. I will still talk to the advisor, but I am sure he will say something like “of course you will improve a lot, you just need to focus a lot by your own”.

#1455

My roommate is from brazil and he went through the Digital Character Animation course at VFS. He has been looking for work for about 3 months and has not been able to find it. I’m fairly certain that has a lot to do with the fact that he’s from brazil. Getting a working visa is difficult because you have to be sponsored by the company that wants to hire you. If the company can find enough local talent, they often don’t want to bother with that.

That is one other benefit I forgot to mention about VFS. A law was just passed in January that allows students who graduate from school to get a 1 year working visa in canada. You don’t even have to work in your field. I am not sure which schools up here qualify for that, but I know VFS does.

You’re exactly right. You can get all of those things on the job if you work at a good studio. VFS basically gives people work experience in a studio, or as close to that as a school can offer. It’s a valuable thing if you aren’t good enough to get hired yet.

#1456

Yes, I suppose it would be a lot of trouble looking for a job in another country. If I go after that, I suppose it is better to look for it here in brazil.

Anyway, I talked to the advisor moments ago. And is it hard to talk to someone in english! I have never talked to a native english speaker and it was quite a stressful experience. I wonder how would it be like in the first days or weeks living there…

She told me what I expected. That yes, I will improve my work there. That if VFS can not, no one else can. That they do not accept reels without good experience and that most people there are people in my situation; around 30 year with already a good experience in the field. Like she said, “looking for the next step”.

This is quite a contrast to what I read in this 90 pages. Through this topic I learned that the VFS has a majority of people from 19-25 years, going from highschool or from another field, with little to no experience that are mostly wanting to get a job in this field.

Who to believe in? I do not know. But in any way, she told me that it would take about an year to get there. Though she also told me to hurry up (something that I also read here they would say), I do not see much difference between 1 year or 1 year and a half. So I will take my time to decide and just calm down.

#1457

sorry but they told u loooots of bullshits as they want ur $$$ :slight_smile:

they told me the same and i spent almost the first 6 months getting bored as they start from the basic.
in most of the classes there r lots of young people with NO 3d experience…
trust me: if u know 3d already and u r looking for the next step then buy some digital tutors tutorial and watch them as at VFS they will tell u the same (or actually less) for much more money…
there is no secret 3D, secret way to do things that at VFS they teach u and in other places you cant get… video tutorials show u the same and much more.

i wish someone told me that before i paid lots of $$ for VFS…

#1458

Actually, I am very surprised by the amount of time, attention and sincerity they spent with me over the phone and email.

The advisor told me this things that I said. But she was not sure. So she asked me a link to my portfolio and showed it to some teachers there. They then phoned me here and explained that, indeed, they teach basics. That they prepare the students with portfolio and know how of the industry, of how to work under pressure and under deadlines.

And he told me that by my portfolio I already knew my way around at a work place. And my objective (to increase my habilities in render and vfx) is very specific and I would not get as much value with my time there as would someone who have never worked in a studio.

I would still learn stuff. But he could not be sure that in the end I would think it was worthy 50 thousand dollars. My entire life savings.

This made me a little sad, as I was really looking into it. But this is a lot of money that I would get little back as results.

Anyway, I no longer have this idea that they are only after money. If it was here in brazil, I am sure no school would have told me that. I am sad for not going there, but I am very happy because I could have made a terrible mistake and they help me.

#1459

I have been thinking about go to VFS for more than 5 year and only now I could save the necessary money, so I have all of those doubts too, Im getting crazy and I cant stop thinking about this! It is too much money to take a risk! It is very difficult to make all the doubts clear because we hear many different things and we can’t trust in our advisor from VFS because OF COURSE he want sell it, but I cant disagree with one thing, many people here say it “dosen’t worth go to VFS” because is too expensive and they will teach you only basic things that you can easily find by yourself on the internet FOR FREE. But if it is really true how can they have many great demo reels? Maybe because this great demo reels is from people that went to VFS already having a lot of experience?! I don’t know…

People here on the CGSociety and from VFS always say about VFS will help you to make your demo reel, everything make me thing, 60k to have someone by my side helping me to do a demo reel?! That is it?! I know if you want get on this field the demo reel is the most important thing but come on!!! 60k!? Do you guys know another good school in Vancouver cheaper than VFS? The only thing that didn’t let me gave up until now about VFS is because of the new work permit, because Im from Brazil and I really want to move out to Vancouver.

I read many pages here but I couldn’t find anything about another very important thing too, the salary! Everyone here work with CG because of passion, me too, but I do care about my future and my money too, so please help me guys! People that went to VFS or people that already have or had a job in Vancouver think about it? How much the industry is paying for a beginner, for a senior and for a recently graduated student in VFS, I asked the last one because the school have a big name so I hope that students from there to even not been so good.

#1460

Hi there,
I am well knowledgeable about the school situation around town, as I have attended a school here and am now working in the industry.
First I have to say that your instincts/fears about paying too much for a school like VFS are correct. Dont do it! 60 thousands of dollars is crazy!!! And they do not guarantee you work at all. So when someone says the adviser wants your money, they are right…they are trying to run a business! And you are the fuel.
Learning online can be fine for some people, but you may still feel like you need guidance. If you are already into VFX, I would suggest a school like Lost Boys Learning. They focus on VFX, and can tailor to your skill level. Plus the teachers there are actually high level VFX proffessionals themselves. That school has a 98% hire rate so its a good chance for you.(no the school doesn not pay me, but I work with a couple of the grads from there…)
The reels that people actually see coming out of VFS are the ones they advertise. 80% of the work that is completed by students, that you dont see on the sites, is actually really bad. Just go to a grad show. I am sure some of the students did not work hard, or were not talented, but also I think the school promises a lot and in a short time,and realistically can not deliver on that promise.
Why do I care to tell you this stuff? Because my cousin lost a lot of money, when he could have bought an apartment, and he is back working at his old job. Maybe it is his fault, but the promises that a lot of these schools say, can not come true in reality. In fact I think in canada and america the private school are being investigated because of these practices.
In my opinion( after Many conversations with people that I work with):
If you want to become an animator- go to Animation Mentor online, or a small focused school ( Think Tank in Vancouver). If you then have lots of money and time and want to make a short film with support and guidance, then maybe try VFS after doing a focused school.
If you want to be a modeller, VFS is good- my modelling supervisor went there and some years later his work still looks good. But he already had experience when he went, and actually he is talented.( an no he is not paying me to say that). Also I see good modeling reels come from The Art Institute in Vancouver ( but terrible animation reels, and so-so vfx reels). I think AI is 30 thousand for 2 years.
If you want to be a VFX professional, Lost Boys Learning is hands down the best school- but I have seen good stuff come from VFS too. But the compositor I work with that went to VFS says he wouldnt go there if he knew what he knows about it now. And actually a lot of the VFX reels thatcome from VFS are like little short films and not really focused on a skill set that is practical. Its like a lot of work for a small amount of skill.
Anyways I just thought I would give you some ideas. Also you cant work in Canad easily after doing that school because they don’t give degrees. Something like that, I am not sure, but I know that a lot of people that come from other countries think they can stay in Canada after vFS, and they cant.
Good luck and work hard. As for the wage question, I know the starting salary here at my company is 35 thousand a year. is that good or bad? I dont know.
I love this business, but I have no life and I work very hard! But its fun! Good luck to you all.

#1461

Thank you very much Tula!!! It helped me a lot! And I’m sorry for your cousin, I thought the same thing, should I buy one apartment or go to VFS hauhauahuahuaha The demo reel of this school Lost Boys is amazing, better than the demo reel from VFS! And the price is so much better! Probably it is really a very good school. I tried to call then to ask more information but no one answered, it let me a little bit worried about the structure of the school but anyway I sent an e-mail and now I’m waiting for the answer, Why you told me that this is a school is for people that is already inside the industry? They don’t teach from the beginning? And trying to guess, the school is super far away from Vancouver so maybe I will not meet anyone from the industry until I’m working, thing that I really think that is import because I’m thinking about stay in Vancouver, because the government now is changing a few things and now a few school have a post graduation work visa that will allow me to work for the same duration of my studies. And about the salary 35k per year is the start but anyone know how far this salary can reach a few year later?

#1462

it s not worth to go to VFS because if you dont have experience in 3D you can get the basic of 3D in any school, for much less money.
then when you know the basic you can do the rest on ur own or still find a cheaper school.

yes most of the amazing reel from VFS r from people who have previous experience or that are VERY talented.
in a class of 30 people you can find 1 or 2 amazing reel, 3 to 5 that are good and all the rest is crap, not at the industry standard. but of course VFS doesnt show that.

salary for someone that starts is around 25-30k per year in vancouver as far as i know.
maybe it sounds a lot for you that live in brasil, but it s pretty low for living in vancouver. u live it s fine, but dont think u live like a king :slight_smile:

#1463

I definitely agree with Tula on everything.

for VFX go to Lost boys (i ve heard it s good and cheaper)

for Animation go to Animation mentor

for Modeling go to… mmm VFS?? still too expensive, u can find good modeling schools everywhere. BUT i have to say that the modeling mentor at VFS is really good. I dont say anything about other mentors… if u know what i mean.

Tula said the same things i said: most of the reel at VFS r CRAP. not saying in other school r better, BUT dont judge on what they show u!
dont think u pay 60k and u ll end up with a SUPER COOL REEL like the ones u see online!!

again, i wish someone have told me all these things before i paid so much money !!!

#1464

hey let s put this up. it might be useful to people isnt it?

#1465

Yes!! good for me. i started to felt that , i was childish as i thinking if i graduated from VFS then i can get higher salary than other student who graduated from other school ==…i had a wrong thinking but now i won’t anymore :slight_smile: … i just graduated from my diploma in 3d animation and i wanted to work in VFX but i only explore myself from internet… im thinking that , am i need to take a VFX course in Canada and get a job from there?

#1466

Hey Guys,

[left]I have been to VFS to take the 3D Animation and Visual Effects course. And if I could go back in time, I wouldn’t go there. I made a review of it on this site for you all to see. VFS’s whole school is a complete fraud. Art Institute is being sued 11 billion dollars for paying recruiters commissions for each student they convinced to go to that school. I can imagine VFS does the same [i]Ponzi scheme.

Here’s my review:
[/i]
IÂ’ve been in love with animation, drawing and being creative since I was a little boy. I always dreamed of waking up every day and going to a job that really doesnÂ’t feel like a job but feels more like having fun. I couldnÂ’t imagine a better career than to do what I love and am most passionate about.
I choose the school for a variety of reasons. Prior to going to VFS, I was a student for Digital Animation at a local public college, and my experience there was not too favorable. One day as I was sitting in the computer lab browsing YouTube, I saw some of the VFS demo reels from the 3D Animation and Visual Effects students, and they looked amazing. That was the major factor contributing me to go to the school.
I did many things prior to going to VFS, because I knew it would be a lot of hard work to garner all the money I needed to get to go there. I talked the admissions adviser and a student who graduated from VFS. But the adviser didnÂ’t say anything bad about the school and the student was hand-picked by the school to give a testimony to me.
My previous experience was 10 years worth of art training and 2 years worth of software training at the public college I attended. I had basic understanding of the software that the school used and thought it would be beneficial if I went there with some of the skills I acquired from my other school.
The program is broken down into 6 terms. The first 2 terms deal with 3D modeling and animating, texturing, life drawing, classical animation and visual storytelling. The third term deals with the same but most of it with concept development for your demo reel. The last 3 terms of the program deal with your demo reel, and you go to a presentation once every month to showcase you work and get critique. The last term, though, is more for rendering.
The best things that I can think of about the school are the people. IÂ’ve meet some really great people there. VFS is an international school, and you meet people from everywhere. ItÂ’s a great multicultural environment and has a few nice teachers. Sadly, I canÂ’t name too many good things about the school other than that.
VFS has so many bad things that as I am about to the name them off, they might make me sound like a frivolous, disgruntled student who never worked hard there or someone who just likes to complain. I am being 100% honest, and I am writing this to warn prospective students, especially the international ones. I have a duty to get my story out and warn other people. I do feel that what VFS is doing is a crime, and if my experience of VFS can better inform people about the school, I will have less of a burden on myself. Saving people from an unbelievable amount of debt and heartache is why I am doing this.
The cost to go there is beyond reasonable. The tuition is 55,000 dollars for international students and 35,500 dollars for Canadian/landed immigrant students. ThatÂ’s not even including the living expenses, which is another 13,000 dollars. Each year they seem to raise the tuition more and more. IÂ’ve seen some international students pay over 68,000 just for that one year. And some of these international students had to save for that money in a different currency and work for years. Try converting that into Mexican pesos.
The curriculum at the school is so frolicsome. While you are there at the school, you are taking some many courses you donÂ’t need, from life drawing to classical animation to visual storytelling to character design. They were a complete waste of time, and they always got in the way of other work that was more important. Recently, since I had last checked the site, they changed their curriculum and got rid of a few courses. They also fired a few really bad teachers. The school doesnÂ’t like other people to know how bad a lot of the students complain about the school, and at the end of each term, they get all the students to write reviews about the courses they are taking and the school tries to revamp them. But they really havenÂ’t been taking it that seriously.
One of the biggest problems with the school is the marketing ploy. VFS spends millions of dollars a year on creating this perfect image of the school, showing all these great reels with the great posters and VFS logos. This marketing is how they are literally getting hoards of people around the world to go to Vancouver and spend a gargantuan of money. They have been doing this for years unrepentantly. A lot of the students never spoke out against the school over the misleading information the school advisers told them. What the school doesnÂ’t want you to know is that all those amazing reels came from people with previous experience and who had taught themselves before they went there. There are a few circumstances of when some students were able to pull of some good reels in the year and they had a bare amount of experience. Even in this rare circumstance, their success was not because of the school. VFS wants to take the successes of other students who are talented and hardworking and exploit the studentÂ’s success and talent until they find another reel to showcase the school.
The school 100% owns your demo reel when you are done. This is one of the worst things about the school. They can take your reel and use it however they like in their marketing scam, further contributing to the VFS delusion. They have you sign a copyright distribution release form at the start of the year and another one I think at the end of the year.
The time spent at VFS is so minuscule. One year is not enough time to learn everything you need and so much of your time is spent on frivolous projects that donÂ’t contribute to you getting a job. The scary thing about VFS is that the school is literally like a factory pumping students out or a vampire sucking their victim dry of money as quickly as possible. ItÂ’s unreal when you think about
treating peopleÂ’s hopes and dreams like a commodity or a meal.
The school doesnÂ’t do anything that you canÂ’t do for yourself. They teach bare minimum of anything at all. They lie about their job placement rate. If you go, youÂ’ll find out how many in your class will actually get a job. Some classmates will already be extremely advanced and will more than likely get a job once they graduate but others who donÂ’t have that talent and think that school will wave a magic wand and make them a great artist think again. When it comes to being a great artist, the best teacher in the world is you. Did Leonardo di Vinci or Michelangelo go to some prissy school to be the geniuses they were? No. They worked hard, experimented and loved what they did. If you have the sort of dedication, you can do anything you want. All the best artists, 3D artists and 2D artists were self-taught and used tutorials. Why spend all that money for a piece of paper when you can do it at home a 1/100th of the cost and get more of an education.
The class size at VFS has increased a lot in the last 5 years or so. I think they added 8 new seats to a term since 2004. They used to have like 22 in a class. When I was there, it was 30 to a class, but now itÂ’s 32. They are literally trying to squeeze as many students into a class as possible. They barely had enough space as it is, and they added 2 more. The school was saying about how popular the school is and how they wanted to increase the class size. I was baffled at how greedy the school is. Since they were able to convince many people that the school was great, they claimed VFS to be popular.
VFS has some up-to-date equipment and lots of computers and they were supposed to have added a render farm. I imagine they would try to get the best equipment, considering the amount of money it takes to go there. But students have to complain enough or the school will just slack off and do nothing at all.
It’s hectic and just flat out crazy in that school. You have to be there to experience it. The whole program is disorganized. Good luck finding a computer to render your frames for your end of term presentations. The term presentations are a waste of time, too. The teachers just there and talk out of their behind at your stuff. Most of the student’s would rather be working on other important things. Altogether, roughly 2 weeks or more of your time at that school is just sitting there at inconsequential presentations. They always make a big deal out of presentations and going to class; and if you miss a certain amount of class even if you hand everything in on time, they will kick you out no questions asked. Teachers there can be cruel too and give you a mark of zero even if something is 5 minutes late and they act all superior over it, even though you are paying their salary, and you are the customer—I mean, student. A few of the teachers are not that bad about time delays and handing things in on time. The industry doesn’t care about marks or what school you went too. That’s the 100% truth.
I wouldnÂ’t recommend this school to anyone who is serious about the animation industry. I would also definitely not recommend this place to international students. VFS loves international students. Ninety percent of all the students there are from abroad, and I guess they think international students are easier to trick. Most international students go there to just get the diploma so they can stay and work in Canada.
If you want to learn everything you need to be a 3D artist, go to digital tutors (digitaltutors.com) or animation mentor or other online ways of learning. Also, go and download some tutorials from torrents. Many people post free tutorials too. But if you want to spend all the money and waste all that time and you are rich and have the money, go to VFS. You have nothing to lose, but if you are poor and hardworking and you are working 2 jobs like I did, I would severely advise you to reconsider.
I am not working at all right now. I am working a minimum wage job and am still working on my reel that isnÂ’t done yet.
I would’ve listened to the art reviews on this website about VFS. I read one about VFS for the 3D Animation and Visual Effects program from a guy who had the “VFS: A Risky Investment” review. His review was a very honest and truthful one. This was a month before I started, and I was really concerned on whether or not he was right. In the end, it turns out he was, and it was lots of regret and hurt that transpired after that.
I had high expectations for this school, and I had a lot of faith in this school. IÂ’ve meet so many nice people there at the school but such low quality in teaching and compassion destroyed a lot of my hope in human beings. VFS is a business, not a school. At the end of the day, your money meant more to VFS than your well being and dreams. I find that very rude and inhuman. IÂ’ve heard many horror stories of students that spent all that money and were jobless at the end of the year and in so much debt they werenÂ’t able to live adequately for a while because of student loan payments. Some had chronic stress and depression, a lot of which I am still dealing with today.
If you have read this far, you know where I stand on VFS or any other school. I am not against schooling in general but people have been trying to capitalize on the phenomena of the CGI marvel. [/left]

#1467

^
TL : DR for the most part, did try to skim most as I can.

If anything, I would take that with a grain of salt. VFS is what you make it too be. Like any school, there will people that will shine and some people that don’t.

I’ve meet alot of people in the industry that come from VFS so they’re doing something right. Most of my class did find jobs, and those are the ones who were truly dedicated to the craft got them first.

Sure the tuition price maybe a crime, but there are always risks. If I would do it again I would probably do it again if it weren’t for Think Tank (for modelling at least, and Think tank just started out when I attended VFS)

As for the copyright, it’s not like your going to use your student work to make money? that seems laughable, and your probably not going to reuse down the road after your in the industry. And you can still use your own reel as much as you want.

One thing I can agree on is, it is risky. Your class success depends on classmates working well w/ each other, and who is mentoring at the time. Sure you can get the same dribble learning the basics. But having good mentors and industry experienced teachers point you in the right direction and to pump out a polished reel. Somthing you can’t do at home self teaching, is having peer’s critique your work on a daily basis.

#1468

I am about to go to Think Tank, Forget VFS, i heard a lot of bad reviews from very good students. Their price is crime.

#1469

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