Using the Dopemaster to delete keyframes

#4

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your replies but WOW this is insane. It seems incredible that if I want to delete a bunch of keys on all channels over an area, I have to start entering dialogue boxes, or right clicking on tabs etc…It’s an operation that is performed FAR FAR TOO OFTEN to be doing anything more than is absolutely necessary. If I want to delete a whole bunch of keys…I want to highlight them on the dope master or in the graph editor and hit the delete KEY not a button on the interface or fill in a further dialogue box or confirm my choice. Everyone knows that people who use sw a lot do NOT want to use buttons, pull downs, left clicking, right clicking, they want to use KEYS on their keyboard…It is, once learned, sooooo much faster.

So PMG How about a re-look at the way the graph editor and dope sheet are used.

PLEASE add the simple functionality of deleting cells (and therefore all KF’s regardless of channel) on the dope master. No right clicking (always a pain with a pen - I’m guessing that you guys don’t use them) just plain highlight and a smack of the delete KEY.

Any comments PMG? I would really like to hear from you on this. It seems like such a efficiency crippler.

#5

Isn’t Shift-Delete what you want?

Cheers,

#6

Also try right clicking delete, this deletes keys on all channels.

#7

Hi,

Thanks again but it’s still too slow…

Thomas, the shift-delete brings up one of those damn requester boxes that involves filling in of fields and clicking on a button.

What I’m after is the ability to simply make the keyedit M (Motion channels), this means that in the dope master, you get every keyframe displayed, regardless of channel…then I want to be able to highlight the ones I want to delete (a large range) and then press the delete key on my keyboard and see them vanish…no dialogues, no confirmations just good, fast and efficient. It seems it can’t be done. I’ll ping PMG an email as this really seems like an essential and easy thing to add.

So the function would be…If you highlight cells on the dope master and press the delete key, they are deleted (no confirmation, no additional requester, nothing). Seems so simple and useful.

Anyone any comments before I ping an email to PMG?

#8

I feel his pain. Like creating keys, all have to do is MMB in the graph editor and it make keys and it doesn’t open a cofirmation/cance requestor box.

There should be a “delete” equilivant.

Maybe a beginner mode or expert mode like LW.

One gives u a requestor and the other it doesn’t.

#9

Hi Julez, Thanks. I think that even in beginner mode in LW, no requester is thrown up to confirm deletion of key…I mean it’s just a normal thing to do again and again…imagine getting a requester everytime you moved an object…it would drive you mad…for me, this is just the same. I want to delete bunches of keys, straight from the dope master using the delete key and nothing else.

Hey PMG, Would it be possible to have the delete key delete selected cells on the dope master? It would really speed up multi-keyframe deleting!

#10

Have you had any luck contacting them?

#11

I haven’t contacted them yet. I was waiting for a little to get other peoples input.

I would like to see the following added to the next revision:

  1. The ability to select multiple keyframes on a particular channel and simply hit the delete key (not a button on the interface etc) and have them deleted without any requesters or confirmations

  2. The ability to select cells in the dope master (based on the key edit setting) and, as above, simply hit the delete key and have them go (again not an interface button, no requester popups and no confirmation just a smack of the good old delete key on my keyboard).

Does everyone agree that this would be useful? If so please just post a reply saying so…It will add more weight when I do contact them.

#12

I’m also from a LW background and can see the benefits, count me in. :thumbsup:

#13

“I agree with you on the deleting keys…”

Just wanted to emphasize that I would like to see this, too. (That’s what I meant up above.) I spoke with Lyle about key-select-delete a few versions back. I’ve REALLY tried to see the benefits of the current mind-set - to embrace it - but I’d rather just key-select-delete.

#14

Sounds good to me, count me in.

#15

I agree that the graph editor/dope sheet could use a bit of an overhaul.
While working with multiple channels at the same time is a bit improved since the little checkmarks are on by default now, but the overal problem of it being tedious still remains.

After all that time with the main focus on the renderer, it is about time to get back to animate and finally make it the kickass tool it deserves to be.

500-times-a-day tasks have to be no-brainers.

The 7.5 lightwave graph editor is still my favorite when it comes to ease of use. I haven’t looked at the [8] dopesheet yet, though.

Cheers,

Thomas Helzle

#16

Based on your feedback, the dialogues will be removed. They were a holdover of the old system and are no longer necessary anyway.

About your suggestion to delete multiple selected DopeMaster keys, that’s not really possible right now, but we’ll see if there is something that can be done for a later update.

Also, there is a way to “delete” multiple selected cells without getting a dialogue. I say “delete” with quotes because you don’t actually delete keys on individual channels, you excluded them (i.e. the edits are non-destructive). Just hit the “i” key on your keyboard. That key is hard-coded for the key include/exclude feature. It works with multiple selected keys and is a great way to test keys while the animation is playing.

-lyle

#17

Lyle,

THANK YOU! That would be a real leap forward. When you say yes, apart from the dopemaster part for now, are you including the ability to multi-select keys on a channel and simply press the delete key to have them deleted? I have my fingers crossed.

It gives me great satisfaction to work with a piece of software where the developers are clearly listening - great stuff!

PS I must say I agree with Thomas Hezle on LW7.5 being the easiest graph editor to use. I think a good look at this one would benefit MA enormously (there is no shame in this!). The combination of LW7.5 graph editor’s ease/speed of use, with MA’s dope sheet and dope master and I think the graph editor would be about as good as it can get. I’m glad you said that Thomas, I thought I was the only one so kept quiet. :wink:

PPS I also agree with Thomas Hezle on “After all that time with the main focus on the renderer, it is about time to get back to animate and finally make it the kickass tool it deserves to be.”. My personal opinion is that PMG should really focus on the animate part and integration with LW/XSI/Maya/C4D. I just think this is where their continued success lies in such a competitive market - Hey just my penny’s (cents) worth.

#18

Yes. You can do it now except for the facts that the dialogues get in the way. So, based on your feedback, the dialogues have been removed. That is what you were after, correct?

Yep:) Because of all the work going on, it is very difficult to keep up with the list when I’m in the dungeon, but I try to pop in when I get a little “down time”. When I can really escape the dungeon, I’ll be back in the forums much more frequently.

Until then, don’t hesitate to post.

-lyle

ps: I’ve read your other suggestions, as well. I can’t promise anything in the immediate, but this is an area that will be modified in later updates;)

#19

Hi Lyle,
At present, if I multiselect 5 keys, lets say on the x channel, and press the delete KEY (not the button), then the requester pops up, which you’re removing but this still only deletes the key that the timeline marker is on…what I’m after is the ability to multi-seplect keys and simply press the delete KEY to have all the selected keys deleted. This would, for ease of use, require a slight change to the key seletion method…with this system, selections would have to overwrite current selections (unless shift is held down for example) as quite often the currently highlighted keyframe will be outside of the area you are selecting to delete and so you would want this original key to automatically become unseletected, ready for you to perform your delete (or move for that matter). At present, the only way to delete multiple keys in the graph editor is to click on the delete BUTTON. It is, IMO, important to allow deletion of multiple keys by using the delete KEY (on my keyboard).

To be honest Lyle, I feel that the graph editor is a weak part of Animate, given the extremely powerful nature of the software and really deserves an overhaul. I am a true believer in the ability to do all actions wherever possible without pop ups or dialogue boxes and making it FAST (you need to keep the ability to do actions via numericla input for precise control)… It’s what character animation is all about, fluid, fast editing to get all the subtle nuances, not mechanical time consuming numerical inputs in fields. I am sure, if you are intereted in an overhaul of the graph editor, there would be several people who would be only too pleased to offer some user based advice. There is so much right with animate that to have ANY inefficiencies in the graph editor, of all places, seems like such a shame. Really glad you’re listening Lyle. Speak soon no doubt.

Let me know if you’re up for some input on the graph editor…

#20

Not to worry, DMack. The next update will address your key deletion woes. In the meantime, just use the “i” key instead of the delete key.

Also, as I’d mentioned, the graph editor will be modified in later updates. Thank you much for the constructive feedback:)

Okay, all, I really need to get back to the dungeon… you don’t want me to fall behind;) I’ll post again as soon as I can break free. Shouldn’t be too much longer…

-lyle

p.s.: DMack, before I go, I should point out the purpose of the panel. It was designed not to allow you to delete selected keys, but to delete a key at a specific time (usually current) on multiple objects without having to select them. It’s mainly designed for deleting poses. There is a “nopanel” version called “DeleteKey” in the command list (it doesn’t appear to be grabbing the current key, though - fixed). However, you can accomplish this same thing with the DopeMaster rather easily. Anyway, that was just some background info. brb…

#21

Thanks Dmack
For being so passionate and articulate on the grpahi editor and panel.
I was silent and just lived with my problem but thanks to you “I can taste my beer” again.:slight_smile:

#22

Thanks Julez, your post quite made my day! And thanks others for chipping in with your comments. I am glad that you took my posts as intended.

I am very aware that the 3D market place is turbulent at the moment (ridiculous pricing of packages IMO) and hope that in some way our collective requests can help forge PMG a strong place that I feel it deserves. I will continue to push whenever I feel the software is slowing me down/holding me back…just hope that PMG continue to take it the right way, as they have done to date!

The ‘Dungeon’ sounds like good news for all of us :wink: I am certainly looking forward to more from Messiah:Animate.

#23

This is just an update:
We’ve added a new command specifically to delete selected keys on multiple objects/channels (you’re no longer required to click Delete and you no longer get a requester when using the Delete key). Also, there is a new command to delete selected DopeMaster keys;) These features are included in the next update. We’lll let you know when…

Thank you for the feedback:)

-lyle