Traditional Art vs Digital 2d vs 3d

#1

Short version:

is there not enough acceptance of traditional/2d/3d infusions?

dogmatic purists ruin my day.

look out - rant version follows:

#2

slight rant:

It may be just me but:
I feel like there is an unhealthy segregation between these different disciplines

Perhaps its natural for people to be biased to thier own craft

I render a 3d model and paint over it and add some photo textures (layer mode lumanance or whatever) - really work at it to make something I think is cool

3d guy says - thats cheating you painted over your model
2d guy says - thats cheating you did a paint over of a render

Theres and upcoming exhibition through my art hobbyist class (mostly everyone is creating fine art landscape oils). I say that ive been working on something digital - id really like to print it to canvas for the exhibition.
she says - “thats not really considered art”

she says it in such a way as to not hurt my feelings, but im definitely feeling disheartened

its not easy learning to work Traditionally, Digital and 3d - but I feel like im getting hated from purists

Stahlberg, Pascal Blanche, Loic Zimmerman - are amazing - but I still see them being criticised.

Perhaps the trick is to take it all in your stride

Im wondering what people feel or think?

#3

I work in multiple styles. Most of my work is science illustration incorporating 3d rendered elements. I couldn’t image (today) illustrating a cutaway of a generic internal combustion engine using PS alone, but then again, I used to do everything non-digitally in the pre-desktop era.

As a professional illustrator, I say you can create an image anyway you want as long as you do not infringe on the copyrights of others and give credit to others whose image elements you may be incorporating in your work. I personally do not use photos in my work. It is far too problematic.

Purists. There is a time and a place for being a purist. Contests are a venue for the purist.
Just look at the rules and regs you have to adhere to when entering the Challenges posted here at CGS. I like doing the purist thing from time to time to test the mettle in a particular area.

About your instructor, people that are unfamiliar with digital work (and a fair share of people that are) simply do not know how the image was created. This ignorance creates the bias against 3d art in a lot of cases.

#4

I think the quality of the work is a main determining factor. I’ve seen works done in mediums that’s usually not taken seriously, but because the quality is so high that it changed people’s minds. You really have to be honest with yourself if the quality of your work deserves to be taken seriously first–in any medium. It’s like how when film first started, no one thought it was art–it wasn’t until some masterpieces were done with film that people started to change their minds. If you want to sway people into accepting a new medium, you better turn out some masterpieces. :smiley:

#5

I think the quality of the work is a main determining factor. I’ve seen works done in mediums that’s usually not taken seriously, but because the quality is so high that it changed people’s minds. You really have to be honest with yourself if the quality of your work deserves to be taken seriously first–in any medium. It’s like how when film first started, no one thought it was art–it wasn’t until some masterpieces were done with film that people started to change their minds. If you want to sway people into accepting a new medium, you better turn out some masterpieces. :smiley:

#6

Thanks both for very encouraging points of view

always a pleasure to hear from Lunatique - a great idea! 1 masterpiece comin’ right up!

#7

I think that I would have to agree with you.
I come from a fine/contempoary art background and I am trying to acclimate to “the industry” It seems to me that from what I have read in the forums and the type of critiques that change is a difficult thing to promote in the commercial world. Which is ironic, especially given the nature of digital art and technology. Photographers received a bad rap when they started using the camera as a tool for expression. Why? because it posed a problem for painters. Then painters had to figure out something new to do with paint and abstraction was born.
My graduate degree is in Fine Art, but my thesis contained paintings, digital prints, combinations of the two, rapid prototype scupture, video and a website that used a touchscreen interface. From my experiences, it is quite difficult to successfully mix any medium. But for a creative to navigate different mediums and manifest a creative strategy out of it should be commended, not scowled at because it does not fit protocol or a pipeline.
That way of thinking is ultimately provincial. An artists job is to break rules, stretch limits and defy convention. Working in games or movies or even doing design is not the same kind of work nowadays. Which is funny because if you consider the bauhaus, that is what the school was all about.
BTW…good question.

#8

>Photographers received a bad rap when they started using the camera as a tool for expression. Why? because it posed a problem for painters

Just rediscovered this site, been poking around this afternoon. While artists have been asking questions like this forever, in this case I think there are some hard facts to keep in mind - not prejudices. First and foremost is that an oil (or other) painting is one of a kind. A Dali print is $3,500, a Dali original is $3.5 mill. or whatever. Same goes for photography, same goes for digital art. Sure, you can print your art on canvas, but as far as the art market is concerned what’s to prevent you doing it 500 times? - it’s not a painting, it’s a print. I’m not taking sides, these are valid concerns. I will confess to thinking of photography as an artistic poor stepchild - I can’t explain why, I know the arts have embraced it, but I just do - some of the same reasons as above, I guess. The other hard reality is that even though your image is the same as if you had used hard brushes, it’s not the same. I’m not saying better or worse, it’s just not the same - oil is oil, watercolor is watercolor, and digital is digital. It is just as foolish to expect to put digital art into a traditional collection as it is to bring a watercolor to an oil collection - they just aren’t the same thing. I understand that to an artist the image might be everything, but in the marketplace or even the “art world” there are many factors in play. The big issue in my mind is that digital art is hardly accepted or recognized at all, in many ways, except for mass media - Pixar, trick TV ads, Flash sites and such. That is the tough nut, is how to get what is truly a new medium into a place that IS respected on it’s own. I suspect that the fact that you can type 10,000 copies into the box and hit the Print button will always keep it more in the realm of prints and lithos, though., even though I, for one, understand how much work it is, and the art is art regardless of the medium.

#9

I was a traditional artist and illustrator long before I became a CG artist. Though i always aimed to do 3D, I just had to wait most of my life for the technology to be developed lol. As far as I can tell, my art hasn’t changed, only the tools I use. I still follow the same traditional art techniques I learned as a youth and in college etc. Using different tools to create art doesn’t define that art. Oh, there’s a perceived difference that still exists, but that perception is unfair. Unfortunately, that perception is helped along by a lot of people so enamoured of the 3D software that they make crappy pictures and neglect the idea of creating art. But there are, I hope, more of us out here that labor and think and strive to surpass the tools and create meaningful art. Of course, a great deal depends on your definition of art. I have my definition, and most likely it’s different than everyone else’s, each of whom has their own personal definition. All I can say is that my art is representative of and reflects the events, situations and concerns of my life. That isn’t always obvious to anyone but me, but I think, I hope, that feeling still comes through. I frankly don’t concern myself over much with other people’s opinions. I only concern myself with my progress and how satisfied I am with my wotrk. Though a ‘wow, that picture rocks’ comment now and then sure feels damn good.

#10

>As far as I can tell, my art hasn’t changed, only the tools I use. I still follow the same traditional art techniques I learned as a youth

Ron - first off, nice work in your port. - very atmospheric. All that you say is true and well put. The issue of this thread ultimately, I believe, is how to sell it and make a living. It’s just a fact that the artists community is a different animal than the art business community - meaning the gallery circuit and such more than someone like Pixar. Dealers DO make those distinctions, rightly or wrongly, and for better or worse. Was a time - probably still is - when oil paint was “real” paint, and everything else, especially watercolor, was “toy paint”. I don’t agree, I’m sure you all don’t either (most of you, anyway), but there it is…

#11

its a similar subject with anime, 80% of the kids at my high school started out doing anime all the time, most of them haven’t strayed from that yet. i did once i realised i could draw other things, i still do it but not as much…i do cartoons but not anime that often. my teachers hate anime…

what i can say from my experiance, even through it may be were you got your start, even if similar rules apply, even if you think its the best thing ever…apparently you gotta keep it in its place, if you get better in one area your gonna get better in another. so keep 3d in 3d and 2d in 2d and trad. in trad…but in the end, only paint little details and fixes for your renders, and use 3d only as a reference in your paintings, but never forget the root of it all…i think learning traditional art is the hardest, but if your good at that too no one can complain…why?
" cause i can do this, that, and that too. and guess what…i can use it all together when i want too"

#12

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