Top 10 things v8 'needs'

#61

I guess EITG will go the Modo route: define first a good infrastructure that eventually allows for animating any data attribute, start by implementing a modeler, and then go adding things to that step by step.

Having two animation apps to develop for a while surely will be costly, but I don’t know how it can be avoided. If Tesla manages to be successful as a standalone product

Kriptonite! Arrrgh, stop teasing us (DON’T!!!).

(could that Camera-Mapped Occlusion Pass plugin of old be resurrected for v7.x?)

#62

This is a great thread, and one of the underlying issues if that of market share and finances. EIAS has been around a long time, and they started as a multi thousand dollar app in what wa sthen a completely different environment. My idea???

Drop the dongle, provide tools as almost free for education. Will you loose some actual sales?? Yes, but you will also build a tremendous amount of market awareness. All of the recent RIAA and DRM issues surrounding digital music dostribution should be an indication that times are changing. I firmly believe that Phosotoshop would not be where it is if it weren’t so heavily pirated.

The current userbase is obviouslt dedicated to the app, and I doubt you would see much change in current revebue streams, but with Tesla and v8 coming, you have an opportunity to dramatically increse the number of “eyeballs” that see the app. This will lead to sales for anyone who is serious, and looking to use this tool professionally.

I know that traditioanlly EITG has been very staunch proponent of their anti-piracy approach, which is admirable, but I also think very old school. Alex Lindsey (former EIAS user at ILM and head of the PixelCorps) was always very critical of EIAS approach relating to this. He makes some very string points in promoting this approach.

Just a thought…

_mike

#63

(Your post somehow leads me to a question I asked time ago: was the 3D Tookit experience worth it? Did it stimulate sales? Would an entry-level inexpensive version of EIAS make sense? Not a project files-incompatible version but a feature-trimmed EIAS. Do those things work?)

#64

I can’t speak for Brad…but I wouldn’t be surprised if Tesla is dongle free.

#65

Interesting question, and I have no insight into the actual numbers, but there were a lot of users using it. I think in the end the limited features ended up hurting that product. Also lack of plug-in support was a big issue.

_mike

#66

Yes… removing the dongle would potentially devistate the plugin community. But again, with Tesla… its a whole new game.

#67 
 Yes please, Occlusion 1.5 (shadder) from Konkeptoine needs to be ported to UB ASAP
#68

Hey Folx.

I thought about it and had a royal change of mind. Don’t want this to be a big issue for animators or Ei.

Hope this helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra06Q9h57SE

ReadyRig Deformer DVD

Video #18
Time 14:00

#69

No…It’s not Christmas :slight_smile: One more.

Just don’t want this to be a stumbling block and hey, It may encourage sales.

Tip 2 from the same video section. Many tips are on the DVD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQanK7gdiSk

Enjoy!

#70

I respectfully disagree with all this CA for v8 talk. The vast majority of EI users are NOT using it for hi end character animation. Only a few hugely talented people on this board (you know who you are) manage to get nice results using these tools. Tesla, to me,
will be the ultimate CA answer for the future. It makes so much sense. I want soft body stuff as well, but i wont even bother asking animator 8 or 9 to have it because of the amount of work I assume it will take to accomplish. But for Tesla? I will expect it as Tesla grows, I am patient. (Maya keeps me overwhelmed in the meantime) In the mean time, animator is nicely positioned in the price vs capabilities equation. $795 vs C4D $3 thousand something. They can make hey in this area with a few little pushes in the marketing area. Anyway…

On Topic -

#1 #2 #3 - Multithreaded camera for snapshots.
#4 - even More options\integration with after effects!
#5 - BUY out (if you can) or build into EI some 3rd party capabilities in Lieu of a modeling solution (at least mr Revolver and possibly other Paralumino \ konk products)
#5 - robust “image to mesh” type capability.
#6 - OBJ import export without 3rd party product
#7 - mr nitro 3 with true 3d breakup of models that ALSO respond to Rodeo Dynamics
the ability to reverse this as well, great for mograph stuff. Texture capabilities also
#8 - better texture view window that actually works reliably. Maybe a steamroller
capability
#9 - as long as we have it, automated configuration and maintenence of renderama. Have it set itself up and monitor itself. Good for new users to make the yucky task
of manually setting up renderama, especially on 8 core machines which more and more people will have. (but I want #1 #2 #3 before this)
#10 - improved redraw previews for animations and work.

That said, I recently spoke on the 18th in LA in front of roughly 100-150 people at the monthly DMALA (Digital Media Artists of LA) meeting. I showed my work and a how to \ tutorial to the group. I contacted EI and they generously gave away a free copy of EI and extended their discount
of $250 to the rest of the group. Maxon is one of the largest sponsors of this event so I tried to break the ice a little by cracking a joke then proudly admitting my love of EI to the group. After showing my reel, many were surprised that a- it was done in EI and b- EI is still around? I got a call from one company that wanted to buy multiple copies of EI and hire me for training. This is primarily a motion graphics group, advanced at 2d and most of them are searching and beginning to make committments to a 3d package. The biggest question asked to me that I was not thrilled answering was the multithreaded question. I explained how fast camera was and renderama is very easy (once set up) but for snapshot test renders WE ALL DO as we reach our final quality images our 4 and 8 core monster machines are reduced to pint sized weaklings. On the plus side the price and capabilities of EI seemed to be well recieved.

I have some very good news for the community that I will share in the next 2 weeks, tease tease tease.

my first public demo reel is at - web.mac.com/finaleffects

#71

Dude that was nasty!

Stuff so crisp I almost got a paper cut.

:slight_smile:

Request #7 would rock.

If I may, I have two 30" monitor…I would love an EI custom window set up. Where I could just snap did different work layouts in place.

#72

Lots of great imagery in there Scott! Good on talking up EI at the Users Group…it can certainly hold it’s own in Motion Graphics.

#73

I hope nobody (alonzo or anyone else) took my personal comments too seriously. I have great respect for the variety of extremely talented EI artists that post here on cg talk.
I feel everyones ‘needs’ will eventually be met. Just maybe via a different EI path…

#74

(Oh, a CGList entry reminded me of this: it would be nice if EIA v8 could use normalized values instead of pixel units for glows and glares, too)

#75

Didnt know you said anything personal? wanted to address 2 things…

1: I/We are not looking for advanced CA tools persay, more so to have the ones in existence to work properly.

2: Again, if I have to wait for a new EI path, which again could be 2 years, that just wont happen. I am hitting brick walls, today. And have been patient for over 2 years.

I do like your list of features, sturdy foundation features.

Cj

#76

About dropping the dongle as a way to
er
foment piracy among the not-paying-customers-anyway crowd so that EIAS is better known and gains exposure (as I understand it, and it is an interesting proposition, really), the greatest obstacle is the unavoidable plugin piracy, certainly. If one wanted to reach, say, the Poser and alike-priced apps’ crowd, I don’t think the dongle would be such an issue: price would, mostly. That’s why I wanted to explore the idea of a cut down inexpensive “EIAS Express”: sort of a dongled 3D Toolkit whose projects are upward-compatible with EIAS and able to use EIAS plugins (so that it still generates plugin sales). It wouldn’t be presented as a learning tool but as a decently featured version of EIAS (say, no Layer Shader capabilities, etc.) that could be attractive for certain markets (archviz, Tesla purchasers, schools, etc.) or as secondary seats. Could there be a market for that? Would it be worth it?

#77

Scott,

I certainly agree with you that EIAS can hold its own in the broadcast graphics department. You’re proof of that. Everyone presses for enhancements to EI in their own specialty field. The CA movement for EI has been going on for a little while now and I/we remain steady in the idea that enhancements for CA in EI is necessary to remain competitive against the competition. CA represents entire new markets for EI to appeal to and I think that’s necessary for increasing marketshare.

How its done is another story. Obviously existing CA tools in Animator need to be fixed and improved upon, but advanced CA tools are what’s in question. Tesla may be the correct answer or infrastructure enhancements to Animator may do it. I’m fine with either way provided one of them happens.

I could elaborate on why CA is needed, but I’d go on and on forever.

#78

Well, not a bad idea, say if we only had PPC Mac´s and PC nowadays. What i mean with this is that a bigger problem might be that newer Mac customers for example with an Intel Chip inside can explore now both worlds of 3D. Like if they wish they could by “Houdini Apprentice HD” for 99,- bucks and don´t have to look for an “EIAS Express” or they buy “Softimage XSI Foundation” for 400+ bucks in case they don´t want to pay 700+ bucks.

I think in the past EITG could always count on loyal Mac-PPC customers (i mean because the majority is mac based), but this might has changed now…?!

Regards
Stefan

#79

Since Tesla is a new framework necessary for new CA features, it would seem EITG would leave Animator as it is, since it already does motion graphics, rendering and some CA. Also render features doesn’t seem to be dependant on the new framework and are consistently updated in Animator.

They could port the render module to Tesla once an intergrated modeler and CA enviro of features are done while regaining a new market of animators with a new CA app.

#80 
Dude!  Next time you're on stage and you get Boo'ed from someone by some tall Black guy with puedo fade hair cut with grey sides .  Don't blame me. :) 

You were being "truthful" about yourself which I respect greatly. CA has very little to do with your interest. 

However, quite honestly, I think EI would have died a long time ago if it didn't have the minumal CA tools that it has now. I don't know one true 3D motion graphic app. The ones that tried to cater to specifically 3D logo animation, to the best of my knowledge defuncted decades ago.  I think Typestry  by "Pixar" and LogoMotion by Adobe was there. 
As much as I respect that line of work...(I use to make a living at it) It's just not enough for a 3D to be a 3D Title animation tool. 

For one, most 2D animation packages are 2.5 D and thus encroach upon many 3D effects. with the added benefit of 3D effects. The margins of 2D animation effects are constantly  expanding into 3D territory.  

Also, usually 3D titles usually need more than just a flying logo, or letters. Its needs 3D water (yours rock) or a 3d building or 3D cloth simulation like yours.  3D logos need a true 3D app, and in order to be a true 3D app nowadays, you have to include CA.