To Leigh! Please read you will LOVE it!

#7

Dear ThE_JacO, I see in your signature you quote Oscar Wilde, here’s another Oscar Wilde quote seemingly relevant to this topic…

I believe xURIELx has displayed rather nicely that he is capable of admitting fault and apologizing when someone can take the time and energy to really explain it clearly, but regardless of his ability to do so, others are not. Communication is a two way street. This is a forum it’s first and foremost purpose is communication. In order to communicate people have to be as equally able to listen as they are to speak… or in this case type. Again and again I keep running across so many that have a lot to say but they don’t listen very well and therefore communication collapses… not beneficial to a forum.

If one is a forum leader, moderator, teacher, counselor they must be able to view things from multiple perspectives… a good artist should be able to do so as well… otherwise the result is flat… 1 dimensional… and it is not possible to bullshit your way into convincing people there are multiple dimensions.

What I do not understand is why it is suggested that artists post their works in the WIP forum to understand why their pieces are rejected if it is not possible to give them the reason? Why can’t that be removed and instead explain that giving a reason as to why their painting was declined is not possible because art judges are too busy and over worked? I mean people are just doing what is suggested to them.

Can you imagine having trouble with your car, you take it to the mechanic to get the car fixed, and instead you have to listen to all kinds of people that just walk into the garage from the street that take guesses at what the problem with the car is? You would want to scream and shake some people too after a while. It is only logical and then when you start screaming and shaking people the mechanics and garage owner comes out and says you have a bad attitude and start calling you names… it is surreal. Perspective people… try it with more than your art…

#8

This is a very poor and completely irrelevant analogy. A mechanic’s sole purpose is to identify and fix problems with a car; customers come to him/her and pay him to do precisely this. The same type of role cannot be applied to a moderator on this site - we are not here to diagnose and fix your work, nor should you expect us to do so.

Would you expect the curator of an art gallery to sit down with every artist whose submissions have not been included in an exhibition to explain what’s wrong with their work? Or do you expect the editor of a magazine like 3D World to write a personal explanation to everyone who submitted work for a chance of publication but didn’t succeed, explaining why their image wasn’t included? If you answer yes to any of these questions, then in all honesty I’d say you have not only very unrealistic expectations of others, but also, to be extremely blunt, a rather inflated sense of self-importance in the grander scheme of things. With all due respect, the world doesn’t revolve around you. You’re just one of many, many people whose work is not accepted into the gallery on a daily basis; moderators are already sacrificing a good chunk of their spare time (hell, I’m writing this at 2:45am) to go through the submissions - to expect them to go even further and write lengthy explanations for every image’s non-acceptance is frankly absurd, especially when you consider that the person who casts the final no vote might not even necessarily have the same reasons for voting that way as the others who did.

Our WIP forums are there for critique. Why some people have such a huge problem with posting there is truly a mystery to me - I wish I’d had access to such a huge communication platform for discussing this stuff when I was younger; my work would be so much better today for it, because I’d have mastered the fundamentals even quicker and therefore moved to a higher level at a faster rate. But that’s because I have always been receptive to critique and discussion about my work, unlike some who are more intent on embarking on indignant campaigns at their imagined injustices instead of just picking up their Wacoms and getting back to work. Because that’s why we’re all here, isn’t it? Because we’re artists? Work for yourself, first and foremost, because your art is an expression of your ideas. And if your work doesn’t get accepted into some gallery that you submitted it to, then consider taking a second look at it or getting some outside opinions. It’s not hard. In fact, a lot of people whose work gets rejected do that on a daily basis.

#9

Whether art is good or not can be argued endlessly. It is a fact that art (or handy work) is rejected daily on the basis that it doesn’t meet a required standard. The work is pushed aside by Art Directors that deal with countless examples constantly. Only the best work gets used. These Art Directors are responsible for the look and feel of high quality products be they games or films or any other communicative media. Most members on this site that are busy developing their skill are interested in commercial work so they/ we care what is good or not, what will sell or not. In fact most of us want to be excellent and this site (which is a free service) is a great resource for helping achieve that goal.

It is tough when you don’t get the attention you feel you deserve. Searching for ‘other’ things to blame is a waste of time. I cant believe leigh took the time to respond to your post.

Indeed, the moment that an artist takes notice of what other people want, and tries to supply the demand, he ceases to be an artist

If this is actually a quip from Wilde then read what he wrote. By all means be an artist and care not what others think. That doesn’t work though because you have spent hours demonstrating that you do care.

Good luck.

#10

My analogy is not poor nor completely irrelevant because nobody has asked you nor any other to diagnose and fix anything… you all have taken the responsibility upon yourselves to diagnose…as that is what you do when you look at the artwork… You diagnose and find something wrong with it and reject it, or you diagnose it and find it acceptable. The only thing that was asked is that you provide an explanation in regards to your diagnosis. And the only reason people continue to ask for an explanation in the WIP forums is because it is suggested in your copy and paste declination emails. In my previous post I have merely suggested you do away with that suggestion and instead include a few lines explaining that you all are much too busy to provide explanations. I believe it would be helpful… and it would probably cut down on the amount of people posting completed artworks in the WIP forums in expectation of answers.

It is 6:11 in the morning here in Austria. I have been awake since 7:00 in the morning yesterday… but here I am still talking… trying to be helpful and offer a suggestion it seems will still be refused because I am “just one of many, many people whose work is not accepted into the gallery on a daily basis”. (which, btw, contains no respect at all and because you said “with all due respect” I am assuming you think that I do not merit any…?)

I am guessing in your case, as in mine, nobody is forcing you to stay up until 2:45 but that you wanted to do so? And that nobody forced this responsibility upon you but it sounds like it is a burden to you? Is it that CG Society can’t find anyone to help you because nobody wants your job? Or because CG Society can’t afford to get anybody to help? Or maybe because there is nobody qualified enough to help with the work load? Are volunteers needed? If this is a community, or society, how can others help if they are not informed of the problem except as an excuse to an accusation of negligence? I am not trying to be a smart ass or flippant… there just seems to be reoccurring problems and I guarantee you there is a solution… but maybe you all should be a little more open to suggestions from the community… sometimes brilliant solutions are offered, but there can’t be any as long as the problem is hidden from those that might be able to help.

#11

This is a free service. Free aid is provided in the WIP area. Members take time to write responses to members seeking aid. CGTalk just offers a platform for the two to meet. Because the service you seek is voluntary there is no guarantee that you will receive help at all. It is therefore important how you use the service because that will influence how much help you get.
Members demanding the most advice are the ones least likely to take it. A small percentage of the people who’s work has not been accepted into the main gallery are only interested in being proven right and are less interested in the standard of their work. This means generally that they wont get much attention from other members.
With your own wip threads it is clear you are one of those people who is immune to advice. Surprisingly enough most members appreciate the service offered and many profit from it.

As a part time instructor I know you wont accept the help of this site in the light it is offered to you so I am off to help others.

In the end there are none so blind as those that will not see.

#12

Yes, it is. And the rest of your paragraph that I am not even bothering to quote doesn’t even make any sense. Do you know how you sound? You sound bitter because you’ve had work rejected yourself, and just can’t move past that emotionally for some reason. The message suggests that people post their work in WIP so they can LEARN MORE ABOUT HOW TO IMPROVE THEIR WORK. Christ, it’s not rocket science. We don’t need to explain to people that we’re too busy ourselves - that much should be realised automatically on behalf of the artist if they possess common sense. I noticed you completely ignored the questions I asked for context, obviously because doing so would invalidate your rant.

It is 6:11 in the morning here in Austria. I have been awake since 7:00 in the morning yesterday… but here I am still talking… trying to be helpful and offer a suggestion it seems will still be refused because I am “just one of many, many people whose work is not accepted into the gallery on a daily basis”. (which, btw, contains no respect at all and because you said “with all due respect” I am assuming you think that I do not merit any…?)

Stop being so emo. You’re entirely missing the point of why I mentioned the 2:45am thing, but that’s fine, I realise this tactic is part of your modus operandi now.

I am guessing in your case, as in mine, nobody is forcing you to stay up until 2:45 but that you wanted to do so? And that nobody forced this responsibility upon you but it sounds like it is a burden to you?

Did I even insinuate this? No, I didn’t. Let me spell it out for you since you’re so intent on misconstruing everything that anyone who disagrees with your indignant crusade says - we are all spending a lot of time just getting the basics done already. Spending additional hours to explain to everyone the reasons for their work not being accepted (overlooking the fact that I’ve already repeatedly explained why it’s impractical due to the multiple-people-voting aspect; another factor you’re obviously trying very hard to repeatedly ignore) just to comfort the fragile egos of a tiny minority who then get upset about being rejected would be asking too much of everyone.

I’m not going to bother quoting and responding to the rest of your post because you are trying to be a smart ass. You keep acting as if you’re speaking on behalf of some huge, disgruntled and disenfranchised community but it’s quite obvious that you’re upset because your own work was rejected. Let’s stop beating around the bush here.

This website is a free platform provided to artists to learn and share their work, and yet you’re expecting the kinds of services that colleges and other learning institutions offer at a premium price.

Kanga absolutely nailed it with this:

Members demanding the most advice are the ones least likely to take it. A small percentage of the people who’s work has not been accepted into the main gallery are only interested in being proven right and are less interested in the standard of their work.

There’s no point in even trying to give you advice, because you don’t actually want any.

#13

I have said nothing unkind… mean or otherwise here… I listen to each thing you all have been saying and I reply in the nicest possible manner each time. Again and again I am turning a blind eye to the insults you keep throwing at me… and you will be the ones to point out others being “pricks”, “assholes”, and such… it is a shame. Neither of you know me, you have no idea what I took away from the WIP critiques I received… yet you claim the rights to state such assumptions as fact… You do know that is slanderous?

All I have been doing is trying to help by offering suggestions that should keep people from posting completed works in the WIP forum in expectation of getting an explanation as to why it was declined. You state that people who expect more simply lack common sense, like it isn’t really your problem… but again and again it turns out to be your problem. I offer a solution that is as easy as replacing a bit of text in your copy and paste declination emails to help with this reoccurring problem. All I get in return are snide remarks and insults…

It is becoming clearer and clearer that it is a “free” service and that people should expect “free” behavior in return… not very professional at all…

#14

Yeah, interesting quote. It’s also interesting, and ironic, how some people hide behind the moniker of ‘artist’ to justify their inadequacies as “artists” and all of their other nonsense.

The vast majority of rejected work, that I see in these Rejection Dejection Pity Party threads, does not need an explanation by anyone as to why it did not make it in the gallery. It’s pretty obvious. The vast majority of this work is weak, due to inexperience on many levels, including composition, technical execution or on the level of communicating ideas graphically—getting one’s point across clearly. The work is usually a collection of poor decisions that may elude the awareness of the artist (Dunning-Kruger Effect in many cases) but surely not that of a seasoned professional.

If an artist is not skilled at developing a work carried by a clever or humorous message or an emotionally stirring quality, then their only other option is to create a nice piece of eye-candy. If one’s raison d’etre is getting into the Showcase gallery for their 15 minutes of fame on the first page before sinking off into obscurity, they need to quit submitting work of a quality that is marginally acceptable, that flirts with the fuzzy gray threshold of rejection and acceptability if they don’t want their egos bruised by comparing it to other work of marginal quality that happened to get in. That’s pathetic. Compare your work to the best out there and try to achieve the same level of qualty. Work of marginal quality stands as good a chance of being blown off the threshold fence by a butterfly’s wing worth of a breeze into Showcase Land as it does Rejectionville.

As they say, if you want to get to the moon shoot for the stars.

Quit crying.

#15

I suggest you look up the meaning of the word slanderous yourself before asking if I know what it means. Please also point out where any of the moderators here called anyone a prick or an asshole, or insulted you. Go on, I’m waiting.

I offer a solution that is as easy as replacing a bit of text in your copy and paste declination emails to help with this reoccurring problem.

No, you did not offer a solution. You passive-aggressively suggested a phrase which stemmed entirely from your own bruised ego to try to make some weak point about the grand injustice you feel has been visited upon you, because you can’t accept that the entire team of moderators on this website are not here 24/7 solely for catering to you personally. As I said before, the world doesn’t revolve around you, so stop expecting it to. This doesn’t apply just to this site, but to life in general.

The massively overwhelming majority of people whose work is not accepted do not going around crying in peoples’ threads that way you have. Do you seriously not realise you’re in a tiny minority here? If it was so unclear that the reason we’re not writing long, delicate messages to cater to your apparent inability to recognise flaws in your work is because the moderators didn’t have enough time, then we’d be seeing threads posted numerous times every single day from people wanting to know why they didn’t receive a personal message. But that doesn’t happen does it? And you know why? Because MOST PEOPLE DON’T MIND. When their work isn’t accepted, they realise that perhaps they need some other eyes on their work so they post it in the WIP forum, as was suggested to them, to get some feedback from others. Wow, was that so difficult? No.

It is becoming clearer and clearer that it is a “free” service

You mean it wasn’t clear from the moment you signed up for free, and submitted work to the gallery without paying a submission fee?

and that people should expect “free” behavior in return… not very professional at all…

pro·fes·sion·al /prəˈfeSHənl/
Adjective:
Of, relating to, or connected with a profession.
Noun:
A person engaged or qualified in a profession.
Synonyms:
adjective. vocational - occupational
noun. practitioner - specialist

So basically what you want is for CGSociety to pay someone to specialise in holding your hand and helping you deal with your bruised ego, all as a free service to you and everyone else whose work isn’t accepted?

Right.

Honestly, I have better things to do with my Saturday than deal with this ridiculous, insecure and frankly embarrassing (for you) nonsense. Cheers.

#16

I didn’t ask you if you know what it means.

And I cannot show you where name calling was used because I only have access to a limited number of older posts. I can show you plenty of insults, but then giving my attention to such things would again be a dilution to the subject, which regardless to how you all keep trying to show it, it is not about me and my ego.

This whole time I have been offering a solution to the problem of people posting completed works in the WIP forum in expectation of receiving an explanation as to why their art work had been rejected because that is what is suggest for them to do in the declination email.

#17

I really don’t get the need for acceptance into the CGTalk gallery. You said that the piece was accepted in other galleries. Why is that not good enough? Do you view the other galleries as lower in terms of quality than CGTalks?

Honestly, both The OP and RyanNore need to sack up and take the rejection like men. You are acting like spoilt children. It’s just embarrassing.

#18

Oh brother! This is like clapping with one hand…

Once again…
It is not about hurt feelings, egos, nobody is crying about anything… regardless of what you all keep trying to convince yourselves.

It is about a misleading text within the declination emails that suggests people to post their rejected works in the WIP forum to understand why their submission was rejected when it is not possible because the person/people that rejected their submission are too busy to tell them why.

#19

There was an ‘experiment’ a while back where CGTalk killed the checking process and let each piece of work through into the gallery. The amount of work that was filling up the gallery was insane-and 95% of it was absolute tripe. Im talking Renderosity/Poser porn bad. The WIP threads are maybe only 5% of that.

CGTalk is a MASSIVE community. Probably one of the largest online. As I write this there are 479 000 registered members. Even if less than 10% of this are active, that’s still enough people to fill a major sports stadium. That amount of people simply cannot have individual attention. I’m sure there are pay sites/smaller communities out there that have the ability to coddle all their users-this site isn’t one of them.

K man…here is an idea. For one month, you need to post in each and every WIP thread (both 2D and 3D) a detailed critique after every single update that a person does. Seriously, do it and see just how long it takes.

#20

Why, should I do that? I do not expect them to provide an explanation. I understand that they cannot give one because they are too busy. And simply because you all think I am whining, complaining, crying, upset, hurt… whatever, you can’t understand that I do not expect them to give me an explanation, reason, or critique… My suggestion is continuously viewed as a complaint rather than a helpful suggestion. If people would stop getting so defensive and just listen to what the people’s actual problem is there wouldn’t be this mess again and again.

The problem is people keep posting completed works in the WIP forum expecting an explanation as to why their piece was rejected. They do this because it is suggested for them to do so in the declination email.

Again and again I keep suggesting that they simply state in the declination e-mail that a reason cannot be given because those that have declined it are too busy with other submissions rather than suggesting that people post their declined submission in the WIP to get feedback as to why their piece was rejected.

Doesn’t it make sense? If people keep doing what is suggested for them to do, only to discover that suggestion isn’t even a real possibility, why not change the suggestion to be an explanation of the real situation and therefore dissolving the possibility for misunderstanding?

#21

Hi all,

I might be a junior to the forum, but I am not a junior in the digital art world, so just listen to what I gotta say…

First, The OP Mr/Ms. Uriel has said in one of the earliest post “I am leaving your site, I hope many others do”…So? I see that not only he/she hasn’t left, but started ANOTHER thread after the initial one was closed, to speak again about the same issues, why is that? We all know this forum is to LEARN & SHARE, why are we starting another thread just to spar with words?

Second, “I am awesome/It was accepted as a front cover elsewhere”, so congratulations are in order and now you got the recognition you need/want/expect…What are you complaining about?

Third, “You are jealous”, This better be a joke…

Fourth, “A Student is speaking about my personality/critisizing me”…What’s wrong with that? He was respectful, and didn’t say anything rude…also, most importantly, what’s wrong for a student to critisize you? Especially when it’s a critique that many had agreed with…

Fifth, “I don’t need your critique”, Then why read it? Simply, your work is put on public for everyone here to see, so ANYONE can critisize it…

Sixth, “I was rejected, I wanna know why”, You know no one will answer to that, and it’s time you face the truth in this life that you are not a walking dream on this earth. You are a professional who will be accepted and rejected, everyday of your life. If you believe you are invincible & have nothing to learn then why post in the first place.

Lastly, Those who critisized the work were serious and asked about many points (the hair, the hovering, etc), but you didn’t even bother to explaing to them your idea, all you said was “It’s intended”, which is strange to hear from a professional talking to other professionals, or have you not noticed that? Yes, those in this forum are professionals just like you, some are older in this profession & more experienced than you are, so why damage your talent with this attitude?

Thanks all.

#22

Would be great if it was true.

#23

I would ask you for a really technical explanation of the rejection of my latest work in a 3D gallery.
If you are a true professional, openly explain what the problem is, i do not send generated messages that insult my intelligence.
Otherwise I think you hypocrites, thank you for your understanding.

#24

Pyke, you said:

CGTalk is a MASSIVE community. Probably one of the largest online.

Make sure you do not own gravitation collapse.
This is the rule and is never wrong.
I looked at some of your work and I must say that it is capable of almost all my colleagues who are doing this work, nothing special.

#25

Are you 12 years old or something? Randomly insulting people on this forum is not tolerated, and you’re on thin ice already.

One more childish post from you, and you’re out of here.

#26

Dude…dont go say things like that. You may emotionally cripple me.