Time for Maxon to Clean house?


Love the ‘fluid solver’ quip - that was funny.
I agree - there are plenty of barnacles that need scraping off this boat. Maybe Maxon should consolidate them all under a new menu: ‘Content Removed for Archival Preservation’ - the CRAP menu.


As I am aware of, the only thing that has ever been removed entirely, was the Convert to Flash Animation… Realy handy for some projects but no-one realy needed it.


shaders that should be removed, just because they are totally sh*t.

Surfaces ->Stars . Please make it go away.
Surfaces ->StarField . dont do that.
Surfaces ->Cloud . No.No. No and no again. No…
Surfaces ->Rust. aka tacky old noise/turbulence.

Flame and fire. where tricks 20 years ago,

All been there, unchanged, since c4d R2 ? At some point you gotta let go or make time to bring that crap up to date. Nobody can say there is not time in 15 or 20 years to write some new shaders.


Many features do seem outdated and very cheap for todays’ standards but I think that the removal of those whould make the application more intimidating to new users and/or students. Don’t forget that we all used those at our early developement. You gotta start from somewhere…

Imagine you have to make a retro-grincy style project and can’t find that totaly cliché light …! :joy::joy::joy::joy:


Actually I’d argue the opposite. Having every feature ever created still in the app is more confusing for new users, as they see tons of mysterious items that they’re not sure what to do with; whole menus are filled with glorious secret gold where it’s actually just trash. I’d be happy to see this made explicit with a ‘deprecated’ sub-folder, left in there for compatibility but clearly marked so new users know not to bother learning this stuff.

Houdini, for all its loveliness, is also guilty of this - I’ve spent days recently grinding through seemingly useful nodes only to find out that it’s not the way things are done any more, there’s a whole new workflow to replace that, it’s now just one click…


Worst. Lens flare. Ever.

If JJ Abrams was dead he’d be rolling in his grave.


I’m bit confused about C4D development at the moment. I though R20 was going to be the big reveal of its new architecture – whatever that might entail – so is that now going to be R21? Or R22?

I would certainly love for Maxon to start an audit of the app’s features, perhaps cross referenced with user feedback. I mean, if 98% of all users hate or don’t use feature X, then either ditch it or rewrite it.

They’ve also added some stuff that I’m not sure anyone asked for. The motion tracker for example. Nice surprise, but not sure it was top of anyone’s wish list. And yet we still don’t have a meaningful way to manipulate and edit HDRIs in a scene. Surely there should be dedicated HDRI container in the Object Manager instead of the clunky Sky+material system. I could go on…


I was trying to say that newer tools take advantage of new paradigms not so intuitive. Take for example the Material Reflectance channel that replaced the old Reflection channel. Many users had hard time understanding it. Now we have nodes.

Having old tools next to new does make a nice transition to advanced and expert application options. And I think MAXON invests on having intuitive tools for new users. That makes it also “academic”. If I were theaching a beginners class, I whould have them make a scene like the one I posted before (planet). Fast, easy to learn, basic, covers the modeling of a complete scene with a variety of tools, in only one session.

Surprisingly C4D has a very tidy interface for its vast armory.

Having a ‘deprecated’ sub-folder in any commercial application isn’t a good marketing strategy. It points out old implementations. People will think the pay for having 50% of things they shouldn’t because they aren’t very “usefull”.

Old or not, everyday useful or not, every feature… well, is a feature. Remove it and instantly the app is no longer able producing it. I think that developers see that as a weakness. As time progresses the product should be able to make more not less… Every application has that accumulative characteristic.


What kind of HDRI manipulations do you usually need ?


in new versions, they highlight new stuff in yellow. Perhaps using the same concept, they could highlight old crap that you should avoid like the plague, in red? stuff that you have never used, and is destined for the trash. It could also remove menu items to a vast bucket menu of things you never use, until you are left with nothing but a cube,a sphere, checkerboard shader, lensflare light and the render button (which should be bigger,red and flash animated)


The ability to rotate and tilt the HDRI, like in Octane (and not fiddling with elements in the scene) . The ability to alter the exposure, hue, saturation and contrast. Keyshot has the ability to scale the HDR, and edit it within the app, to blur it and adding lights or block hotspots. It may sound minor but once you’ve used the other systems, C4D’s seems positively clumsy and archaic.

Don’t get me wrong, I love C4D. But it just feels like it could do with a spring clean!

(Paul, don’t get snarky. I don’t see how my comment warranted that response).


Your reply got me scratching my head…

I don’t use HDRIs often (just the normal .jpg in the luminance channel + GI gets the same effect)…

But I just opened an .hdr to make sure if these things can be done …


Isn’t this the same thing ? (I have never worked with Octane).
The exposure can be adjusted in the image settings allong with white and black points …


Didn’t say they couldn’t, just that it’s easier/less fiddly in other apps/plugins. I mean, how many clicks is that to set up?

I’m just suggesting an HDRI Object with all that functionality built in and easily accessible. Anyway, this is veering off-topic and I weirdly feel ike I’m incurring the wrath of the Denizens of the Internet for having an opinion. So I’m out.


The cloth might not work well with character animation but is much better at least than 3Ds Max for tearing.


I’m not so sure - as long as there’s decent replacements it makes sense to let people know what’s being removed, and it gives users confidence that old scenes will be valid even if the feature gets updated. Adobe has an ‘obsolete’ folder, and SideFX marks some stuff as deprecated, so it’s not some crazy idea I just came up with :wink:


Creative Destruction. It’s necessary.

If one is adding lots of new features you need to start removing old ones. Otherwise you have a packrat situation And a software package that doesn’t feel modern.

BTW…Demis…so you know…a JPG inherently is not true HDRI. JPGs can only be 8 bit. You want 32 bit color data minimum for using as HDRI environment.

File formats that support high dynamic range are .exr, tif, .hdr, radiance.

With only 8 bit JPGs will max out at 11 stops (if that) and can also engender noise in renders.


I strongly believe Maxon’s radiance materials upgrade a few years ago failed (as far as usability) because it tried too hard to be backwards compatible.

They kept all the old channels and built a whole new system inside one of those channels. (Reflectance)

Overall I really believe Maxon is headed in the right direction w/the new core and the acquisition of Redshift. But w/the arrival of all the new they need to make hard decisions about legacy stuff.

And soon enough they’ll need to decide about keeping ProRender in the program…or relegating it somehow so it doesn’t crowd the interface.

Finally…I for one do motion tracking and even though I have SynthEyes, I welcome on-board scene and object tracking. That module is modern and useful for those needing to track.


Cineman (Renderman to C4D bridge) was removed. So it happens sometime.

Motion tracker, while unexpected, is actually EXCELLENT !


I guess you see the new core in things like Volumes and Multi Instances which are both awesome.

C4D lacks so hard in areas like liquids, fluids, cloth and particles that I hope the new leadership continues with acquiring external tools.


Darth_Mole, I don’t think anyone was mad at you (at all). People just have different opinions.