Thoughts on Modelling in c4d


#41

It is possible that HB tools might help from what i remember.
Does iHB have a selection/multiple selection capability in one go? I don’t want to have to change buttons to just select one polygon or several polygons.

My experience with modeling is with Softimage the M tool and the double click to slect a row of polygons are sorely missed ,3dsMax which i don’t like to use for several reasons but not the interaction, several of CAD packages. And now going to Blender 2.8

I did not went trough that training.


#42

HB allows you to…
Select an object and instantly jump to it’s vital component. You hold down a modifier and click an object. If it’s in a nurb it will select the child geo. If you select a sweep it will select the spline, etc.

And you also can work on multiple objects at the same time. For instance doing loop cuts on multiple objects without first having to make selection.

As for double clicking for a loop, you can do that natively while a number of different tools are active and in different modes. Ironically–and curiously-- loop selections don’t work with the live selection tool.


#43

My primal issue is the selection/multiple selection.

It should be just the cursor to select an object/component or various objects/components that automatically changes to rectangle selection when does not find anything.
A key modifier should change this to live selection which for me has been useless in my training.
Another key modifier should change the rectangle selection to other forms

I know that C4D called Nurbs to Subdivsions while ago…thankfully they got out of that mess they put themselves in.

In Softimage the shift+double click was to the next poly, edge or point. It was consistent.


#44

I agree with you about transfer of a selection when changing component modes.

Of course you can hold down shift when you click the one of the points, edges or poly TOOLS and that works fine to translate your selection.

Unfortunately this doesn’t apply when using keyboard shortcuts and I can’t discover a work-around.


#45

There is something sublime about being able to twist a model 720 degrees or more and witness absolutely no imperfection.

Good topology is magic.


#46

One issue I think c4d has overall–and especially with modeling…is the discoverability and accessibility of some of its features.

For instance I was playing tonight with workplanes. With a quick glance about the UI, all that is immediately obvious is the workplane tool/mode where you can move or rotate the workplane.

Dig a little deeper into commands and you find some useful tools like, “Align Selection to Workplane,” “Align workplane to selection”, “Align to X/Y/Z” etc. I don’t understand why features like that are so buried. Perhaps Maxon’s focus on ease of use drove these off the primary UI. As I recall a few generations back these options were more prominent.


#47

Much as I have come to love the Polygon Pen Tool, it aggravates me in some ways, primarily in the lack of axis control.

There are times where it’s virtually impossible to work in an orthagonal view and I can’t find any way in perspective view to constrain that tool along desired axis.


#48

maybe this is not what you are talking about and you already know these things - but if you double click on a polygon or edge it will select it’s loop - but you need to do it with the move/rotate/scale tool, not the selection tool. Seems like it should be part of the selection tool to me, but double clicking to get loops is in there.

also, with the move/rotate/scale tool if you click on one component, the shift click on some other part of the mesh it will select all the edges/points/polys between the first thing and the last

And if you make a polygon selection and what it to be points, just cmd/ctrl click the point mode button and now you’ll have that same selection as points


#49

Sometimes it helps for me to go back to the ultra basic tools and be sure I’m comfortable with ALL the variations and modifier keys. I can forget things.

The modifiers themselves have variations based on click order or context.

Here from the manual are the variations with the MOVE tool:

Pressing the Shift key does the following:

• If pressed prior to clicking on an axis, the movement will take place on a plane vertical to the axis.
• If pressed after you have started moving the object, the movement will be quantized, i.e., in steps of 10.
If pressed without touching the axis, the movement will be restricted to the axis that lies nearest to the mouse movement when the mouse button is pressed.

Pressing the Ctrl/Cmd does the following:

• Duplicates the object when in Object or Model mode.
• When in Edge or Polygon mode, the selected edges or polygons will be duplicated but will remain attached to the mesh, which basically results in a free extrude.
Double-clicking on one of the elements marked in the image above will lock the direction of movement. A single click on an unlocked element will lock it. Double-clicking on the element again will unlock the element.

I was a bit soft in my knowledge of items in bold.

Double clicking the axis of a selection will lock movement to that axis. Nice! Now I only wish I could do something similar with Poly Pen.


#50

Selecting specific edges is an area where MODO Prevails
in MODO you can elect one edge and tap the left/right Arrow keys
to select more(or less) edges of the loop, in either direction.

Also any “symmetry” tool that involves mirroring half of the model
to the missing side, is bloody useless for blend shape,morph target creation where the point count of the target geometry must be maintained.
which is why I still have to fire up MODO when creating custom face/body morphs for the Daz genesis figures.


#51

I have no doubt that Modo is superior in some operations…and in particular work flows.

One can look w/envy at other apps in the way they handle specific things…

Consider these recent posts at the Autodesk forums:

User coilbookmedia:

"Cinema 4d has volume modeling now. When will we see this feature? I hope not in 10 years like it took for liquids. max is now very behind with SFX unlike Houdini, Cinema etc "

User juan_baez :

"Every year I feel that by using 3DS max I am falling behind. I see software like C4D adding this type of new modeling technics and other software like Blender with its EEVEE real-time rendering and visualization and I wonder if I should just abandon ship. "

Every user base gets envy about something.


#52

Here are guys on the Modo forum:

Scott Martin:

“I’m now thinking about heading towards C4D for anything motion, I sometimes get an idea of doing some basic MoGraph but find that MODO soon crawls. That and RedShift being available…”

John Moore:

"Short answer - no.

That’s not dissing Modo, it’s just that C4D has built itself around motion graphics for the last 12 years or so. The Modo dev team don’t stand a chance of matching that effort in the space of 12 months.

Other important factors, C4D has Houdini Engine, X-Particles, TurbulenceFD and Krakatoa - all vital addons/ingredients for compelling motion graphics.

I don’t ever see Modo being a challenger to C4D for motion graphics, it’s simply not architected in a manner that allows the same level of procedural/parametric control. ModoP is an order of times slower times than C4D in general terms and the Mograph module is multi-threaded throughout. To create a Mograph beating module in Modo is years of dedicated development alone.

But for asset creation, texturing, look-dev etc. Give me Modo on all occasions. :slight_smile:

EDIT:~ Forget to mention the awesome deformers in C4D (as Simon Homendal mentions in the film). Not only are they great for faking simulation effects (turbulence, spline wrap and jiggle - instant controllable fabric that morphs into a typographic treatment), they allow you stack them up, whilst being modulated by Mograph effectors via a boolean controlled falloff set up, whilst still providing real time viewport feedback. That’s a whole lot of years of specialist engineering right there.

Most of all C4D feels like it’s made by designers for designers. The dedication of the Cineversity folk from Maxon USA feedback directly to the engineers in Germany, and Maxon Germany have the likes of Aixsponza (Entagma) on hand locally to further enrich the feedback loop."


#53

Some people have the time, energy and horse-power to master multiple DCC apps.

I made the mistake five years ago thinking I was one of those people and purchased Modo. I went through tutorials and liked some aspects of it. But I never got comfortable and my energies were flowing too many different directions.

I want to master the Substance Tools, XP, keep up with AE, and be semi-competent in Unity. I have to remind myself that I can’t do it all. That’s me anyway.


#54

IceCaveMan

Can you link to that Simon Homendal film or to Modo specific forum topic where that was said?


#55

https://community.foundry.com/discuss/topic/137682/modo-mograph

The whole thread–5 pages long-- is quite an eye-opener. Lots of c4d love on a Foundry forum.


#56

I need to study the differences between extrude and smooth shift…

And between melt and dissolve.


#57

I’ve neglected the Tweak mode. It’s sweet.

When enabled you can manipulate points, edges and polys without selecting anything first. And immediately after completing the manipulation any temporary selection is released. You can continue on and tweak something else.

Its extremely handy but you break the process if you select anything. Here you hover over a component, immediately begin to manipulate… then release. Upon your release the selection is also released.

Works with move, scale, rotate.

There are some changes w/Tweak. A few versions ago when Maxon introduced the Polygon Pen Tool they changed tweak mode. The move tool now no longer auto-selects points/polys/edges. It is mode specific. For multi-component operation you need to use the Polygon Pen tool.

I remember using this years ago but had forgotten about it…


#58

Although MODO has added alot of “general” 3DCC features
particularly in the area of Character/rigging& animation, I
personally would never try to do any actual animated
filmaking or VFX in that program either .

At the core I am Character animation/VFX artist.

I think trying to learn multiple programs for the sake of
merely knowing them is a fools gambit.

That said, however since my area of interests crosses multiple
disciplines , I have come to realize that trying to achieve
everything in one application while certainly"possible" is not
always the most efficient or practical way for most of us.

(OK,…Houdini and perhaps Maya if one is a wizard class
MEL script engineer) .

I see many people in the Iclone /Daz & poser communities as
well as the C4D/Lightwave Communities complain that we
still dont have feature X,Y,Z and will go thru all manner of
absurd& labor intensive workarounds/hacks to get a
substandard result.

But will balk at the suggestion of using another program
for that specific task because they fear leaving their comfort
bubbles or have some silly, tribalist, emotional hatred of the
other program.

Thankfully Adobe After Affects uses so many principles
I learned in my 19 year career as professional designer for
print using the Adobe suite and it is tightly integrated with C4D
for compositing my VFX.

I utterly loath MODO’s “material stacking” system
(at least the pre foundry versions)
But I will use it for Custom morph creation and those
modeling task where C4D Fails me

And My Lightwave’s 2015 Aged Scene/asset
management system Appears to have literally been designed
to punish someone for committing some horrific crime against
humanity.

However its Volumetric particle VFX system
and rigid body dynamics with various fields for custom
behaviours make it a better permanent license investment for
me than renting an Xparticles license from Insydium.

Not to mention that My Iclone Pro/Endorphin/daz Genesis
Character animation pipeline is completely transferable to
Lightwave at some future point.


#59

Agree with you Dude.

Best tool for the job…without bias…

Then we balance against our human limitations. In an ideal world I’d love to master javascript, Python, C#, HTML5, c4d, XP, Unity, a little Houdini and much more.

And I’ve made various degrees of progress with each.

I sometimes fall into spending so much time learning that I’m not creating and building as much. I have a big database dev project (db stuff is my primary income) starting up but when that wraps up I’ll likely commit to doing dailies.

I might first commit to posting daily modeling projects for 90 days.


#60

I’ve now seen two tutorials lately that show there is real life in the Boole.

The Boolean tutorial Toby provides in the MILG series is absolutely jaw dropping. When you combine a knowledge of flow with deeper understanding of the c4d tools you can work around the boole’s inherent limitations… and create some stunning models.

Glen Johnson’s video linked here provides some ideas, but it didn’t show a lot of the tricks Toby has. Toby has tips I’ve never seen anywhere, and employs them on some complex (and beautiful) examples.