# Theoretical SUB-D

#41

That’s how I’d do it 'Noxx. You wouldn’t get there until the tidying up phase anyway, so the poles wouldn’t matter.

#42

Interesting post from ages ago on Spiraloid:

http://cube.phlatt.net/forums/spiraloid/viewtopic.php?TopicID=23

#43

Good one, Matt, thanks.

Looks like five siders might not be all that bad if used properly. Good way of terminating detail.

Hmmm…

-3DZ

#44

Fede:

I’ve finally rested on a tecnique, illustrated a bit on the first page, that really seems to work well. It allows for maximum creative control, while retaining all the positives of box-modeling.

The poly by poly method I think is now being called “Detail Out”…not sure who coined the phrase, but it seems to fit.

The cool thing about it, is that you can still use you box-modeling techniques whenever you want. That extrude button is only inches away.

I just have found that starting with the closest shape, not just the simplest shape works best. A box requires alot of modification in order to get the curves right. It can be overly daunting, and perhaps not very intuituve. It’s also a bit harder, IMO, to get the topology correct when deriving from a box. Perhaps it should be called the “whatever works method”.

I’ll write some more and post some pics of the technique later if you are interested.

Anyone else?

-3DZ

#45

Man THIS is what user forums are all about! This is a great thread filled with a fantastic exchange of ideas and suggestions. I know I have always just cut, connected and smoothed and re-did it another way if it didn’t turn out the way I wanted. But listening to you guys really gives me a good idea of how deep this topic (of sub d’s) really goes. Thanks 3DZealot and all of you who are contributing to this thread, I know I for one am learnig alot from it.

#46

Originally posted by Equinoxx
[B]the last one i usually solve using the following method if i absolutely WANT to have quads

that way you eliminate both tris and ngons . . .

problem is that this solution results in poles :sad: [/B]

Err…couldn’t you just combine each pair of tri’s into a single diamond quad ? That’s what I usually do and it looks fine - fewer polys too. Or is there some reason you shouldn’t do this ??

That subD primitive is a great idea, btw. Thanks for sharing it:)

#47

Here’s a stupid one, but it’s kinda cool.

#48

hehe 3dzealots two-step eye tutorial . …

crapstick, if you combine the 2 tris to one quad you’d still be left with the ngons around it . . .

#49

LOL, ok, so I’m getting lazy. But I figure most of these guys know the basics, I’m just illustrating the idea behind the primitives thing. I’m actually building to something here…

Not to mention that’s a really crappy eye…Don’t think I’d really want to show how to make that.

It’s the new 3 minute eye socket! Now with more mesh errors!

Go get yours today!

-3DZ

#50

Originally posted by Equinoxx
[B]hehe 3dzealots two-step eye tutorial . …

crapstick, if you combine the 2 tris to one quad you’d still be left with the ngons around it . . . [/B]

oh hell, yes
carry on…

#51

Originally posted by Equinoxx
crapstick, if you combine the 2 tris to one quad you’d still be left with the ngons around it . . .

Target weld the end points to their adjacent vertices; all back to quads (I know, doesn’t always give the results one wants, but hey…).

#52

Has anyone found a good use for the HSDS modifier in Max? I’ve taken a look at it, but there doesn’t seem to be much point to it. Using EPoly and Meshsmooth seems to work just fine.

#53

I’ll take a look in the HSDS Mod.

Something I was asked before, and now I’m in doubt in the characters part, is how do you guys handle when you don’t have front and side views of the character you are modeling???

#54

Ok, I did a very quick look in the HSDS mod, and it appears to me that it’s usefull, when and Area is segmented, and it needs more segments.

IE:

#55

Can’t you just use local tesselation?

I’ll post up some images in a little while of a thing I did with subds/meshsmooth+epoly

edit

Right, here we go. These pics are about 40-60Kb each, so I’ll just post two and link the smoothed versions. They are also PNGs, so post if you have any trouble viewing them and I’ll switch to GIF, but expect file size to go up about 10Kb each.

Here we go…

I created this thigh with a, for me, new technique. Thanks to Gnarly for giving me good ideas

I started with a cylinder in the sideview. As you can see, the structure of the hip joint lends itself pretty well to this. What I did next was give it a rough shape to fit the concept.

The brown inner part was detached to make it easier when it came to the grooves. Anyway, to extrude downwards, I didn’t extrude faces but used polymodeling techniques. In other words, I deleted the bottom of my cylinder and started shift+dragging edges. I find that this gives me go(o)d control over the mesh

To get the grooves, I just cut the mesh. Cut where you want grooves and seams. Then bevel edges, select newly created faces, bevel, extrude and finally bevel. The last bevel can probably be omitted, but I like to have useless detail I used shapes as guides, early version here, to cut the more fiddly details. As you see I’ve moved things around a little so they don’t match up anymore

To get perfectly round smoothing on the inside, I used a trick I got from Gnarly. I put a cylinder at the center of the hole, gave it the same number of segments as the model (16 I think), and used 2d vertex snap to move the vertices to edge of the cylinder. It was a snap (pun intended) to get a perfect cylinder when the model is smoothed. Increase the radius and move the vertices of the next loop to get even better smoothing. Tweak a little and you’re set.

Hopefully this will help someone

Got more stuff to show if there’s interest.

#56

My take on HSDS:

I reckon it’s only there so Discreet can say “Hey, now Max has Heirachical Subdivisional Surface modelling!” in their PR blurb. In reality all they have is a meshsmooth you can use locally without the added hassle of adding a Mesh Select modifier underneath it to pass it a selection. A useful HSDS mod would allow proper modelling at each level of subdivision, a la Maya. A useful HSDS mod would allow skinning at Level 0, and driving the high-poly mesh from that. Max’s HSDS mod does neither of those things, so it is at best limited, at worst useless. Only time I ever use it is as an alternative to Meshsmooth on a cloth object. The way HSDS subdivides the mesh is kinder to a simcloth-ed mesh than meshsmooth, which tends to obliterate half the creases the cloth mod so lovingly created for you.

\$0.02

#57

[B]My take on HSDS:

I reckon it’s only there so Discreet can say “Hey, now Max has Heirachical Subdivisional Surface modelling!” in their PR blurb. In reality all they have is a meshsmooth you can use locally without the added hassle of adding a Mesh Select modifier underneath it to pass it a selection. A useful HSDS mod would allow proper modelling at each level of subdivision, a la Maya. A useful HSDS mod would allow skinning at Level 0, and driving the high-poly mesh from that. Max’s HSDS mod does neither of those things, so it is at best limited, at worst useless. Only time I ever use it is as an alternative to Meshsmooth on a cloth object. The way HSDS subdivides the mesh is kinder to a simcloth-ed mesh than meshsmooth, which tends to obliterate half the creases the cloth mod so lovingly created for you.

\$0.02 [/B]

I agree 100%. I never used, and I’ll still not use it anyway, I don’t bother

#58

Thanks Iain. That’s pretty much what I figured.

#59

I guess it took a little while to write that… hehe…

#60

hey guys I don’t know sh*t yet but I’m learning thanks to all of you . (I’ve already learned ten times as much from this board as I have from the books I’ve bought).

@viper : I handle not having front and side views of the char 1 of two ways.

1. If I have a good Idea in my head of the way the char looks its just a lot of panning and rotating in the user view.
2. I sketch out the views that I need

not sure which way is quicker as I spend more time double checking myself with the first technique or the time getting the sketches right for the 2nd . :shrug: