"The Rescue" Short Film


#41

[size=3]MARCH 5TH STATEMENT

THE PROJECT IS STILL GOING ALONG

I’ve not posted any images in a while because once upon a time I went a bit overboard with showing about 80% of the shots in a short film I directed called Rocket-Man 2. People pointed out to me that I was just showing too much and I have to agree with them on this
.although the other side to this is that I need crit…that could be where they were wrong, but I understand what they meant. From a viewing experience its nice for people to see it as fresh as possible.

A completely new sequence is being made at the moment, it starts off outside and then goes into a large ancient ruin. I wont go into too many details but the above shot is inside that ruin.

STAGE6

Just noticed that Stage6 was Shut Down on February 28th 2008

I have to say that I’m a bit gutted here about this one, the quality over at Stage6 was incredible, if you were a independent filmmaker who wanted to show a little clip from your film in high quality and not have to pay large amounts of money to do so, it was perfect.

[/size]—


#42

Hey everybody,

Gonna post a piccie here, but gonna try hard for it to be just ONE piccie every now and again, the project is still very much being made, there’s quite a few sets been built now, it’s proving to be quite a large project. its definitely a experimental project, and its definitely me trying to go in a different direction to my past shorts. Its exciting, I genuinely have started to get excited about it again.

This is a shot from a sequence where the main character walks down a tunnel.

WHAT WAS THAT BUISNESS WITH THE SECRET HIDEOUT WIP APEARING IN THIS FORUM?

The Secret Hideout WIP was meant to be contained in the Maxon section of CGTalk (which is a very busy section of CGTalk) in a effort to bring more viewers in, that may sound slightly devious?..but there’s no point in making a film if nobody is there to watch it. The thread got moved into here.



#43

Where had the Secret Hideout thread been? I don’t remember.

It is odd to me that there is no appropriate Animation Short forum (*ie, for films that are NOT WIP…) at CGTalk. Or am I missing something?


#44

Hey Mike,

Your shots look great, and I LOVE the main character. He looks really awesome and I can’t wait to see him moving.

Keep it up dude, looks like one of your best! :slight_smile:


#45

Yeah, it was in the Cinema 4D section here on CGTalk…they moved it to here though. I think that because I used the word animation in the opening post, it led to it being moved. It was just meant to be a one off scene WIP though.

Yep, there’s a section for finished animations…

>> http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=154 <<

Thanks Scott!

Really glad your liking it :)…there was a clip up, but Stage6 (the place where I had the clip) has been sadly shut down. I’ll be puting clips up at revver in the future.


#46

[i]Ok, the project is still coming under occasional fire from some folks who are saying its too simalar to Craste (Jo Jo in the Stars). This leaves me not really knowing what to do…I spose I continue on with it…but it leaves you feeling a bit uncertain on how to proceed. One of my fears at this time I think is that people will label me as that guy who ripped off Craste. I’m somebody whos now been making films for ten years…this seventh animation I just really wanted to push out the boat with character animation…but simple character animation…I mean you think about these things for litrally years…“how the hell can I tell a really good story with full on character animation and get this thing finished on my own in a time that wont kill me?”

[/i]I am not really much of a poster but I stumbled across this last night and I think
somebody should give an honest opinion on this.

I know you have spent a lot of time on this, and like you say you have been making
films for ten years. I am making a short film at the minute so I know how much effort
it takes.

So when I say it not only looks like a very similar syle to Craste but it looks like a
not a very good attempt at copying it. Marc Craste’s work is textural it has depth
and great design. I can not see them qualities in these images.

If I was you I would forget about it no professional is going to respect the amount
of effort it takes to do this, if the work is a direct take from a style that is not
only well known, but beatifully executed.

Flame me if you want I am being honest and polite with you. You could spend your time
doing something much more original than this. I have’nt seen any planning for this. Making
a short film is a process of design and planning and surely you could see that it
very closely resembled Marc Craste’s work in the design phase.

That is all I will say. Influence is a good thing but you can take it too far, which
I feel this is doing.

I really do not want to have a dig at you I am being honest about these images.


#47

Well, that was then. The me now feels a bit differently.

I feel differently about the situation nowadays because some of my peers have bashed some sense into me about it. They say I have nothing to worry about. And some wise things have been said to reassure me that’s its ok.

I have to say that matthewart has a point, things are never exactly the same.

You have shone the spotlight on me, but, have forgotten to shine the spotlight on Craste himself. When it gets down to it, there’s heavy influence everywhere…everythings influenced by somthing else, its how the whole thing works…but yes we do want originality, but I believe that this will be original enough.

Now, this is theory and speculation this next part, but I from I can tell, Craste MIGHT have been strongly influenced by Richard Goleszowski’s “Rex the Runt” and some Brothers Quay animations. It also could be said that he’s very influenced by the Batman character. But I’m OK about this, I really don’t mind…and yes, it is beautifully done, and he deserves that award he won. His adverts for Loyds TSB are also stunning, its incredible work.

It’s not meant to be a copy of Craste. It’s meant to be its own thing.

Lighting and Composition

My lighting and composition style has always been like this, way back many years before I even saw any Craste, first time I saw Craste was in 2007. My animations in 2003 and 2004 look like what I’m doing nowadays. I’m very much influenced by 1920s german cinema and so is Craste.

Art is Subjective

It’s OK for you to not like this look I‘m doing, and I don’t have any problems with somebody coming forward and saying they don’t like it, everybody’s entitled to a opinion.



#48

Mark Craste is the first to admit he heavily takes from
all things. Influence is in everybodies work. What he does
do though is work on it to the point where it is only influence
and not a direct copy of the inspiration.

    If you believe in it then carry on, you know yourself
    how this will turn out. All I will say is that as a fellow professional
    if this came to me on a reel. as is, I would question the works 

integrity.

I am not denying your influence from German cinema
and in no way am I saying that Mark Craste does’nt have similar
influences or has exclusive ownership of those influences.

However I would say though that silohuettes of the characters are very
similar to his and the staging is extremely similar. The glowing eyes
especially show an influence from Craste’s style, you can talk your
way out of that as much as you like. You can not give such an
explanation when other people view it in your absence.

    All I was doing is trying to give an honest opinion about
    it instead of saying it's awesome or whatever. You have let
    me do that, for which I respect you for.

#49

Anybody that knows me well, will know that I like to go full out on communication when a problem arises that I see and want to try and bring understanding to by means of communication. Its no good for me to sit here and get upset art_3d it doesn’t do anybody any good.

Direct copy is a awfully strong way of putting it, I mean this film has its own story, that is going to stand on its own. And the design work (when you put everybody’s work on a sheet to look at) does look quite different.

So it’s a homage to Craste then…like Craste has a homage to Rex the Runt and Batman.

Then you might lose sombody who is very good at lighting becoming part of your team in your company.

good.

…I mean the thing is pauses glowing eyes and silhouettes…why does Craste have copyright on those two things?..I mean those are techniques…techniques that have been used across a hundred and twenty years of cinema. The animated Batman TV series for example has glowing eyes and tons of silhouettes. Silhouettes are very much what that particular German 1920s style are about.

There cant be copyright on lighting or composition, there just cant be. Or wide open spaces in a twenties German Expressionism feel.

This is unforutnetly what is in danger of happening yes…and theres nothing I can do about it, the only thing I can say about it is, everybody needs to increase their knoledge of cinema and view the films of the past…

The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (1920) The Golem (1920) Destiny (1921) Phantom (1922), Nosferatu (1922) Schatten (1923) The Last Laugh (1924) M (1931) Metropolis (1927)

Stalker (1979)

It’s ok, it really is. Plagiarism is a very serious thing, I personally feel that I’m not guilty of plagiarism here on this film, but if there’s individuals out there that think I am, then of course they’re not going to be to happy, they’re going to come in here and they’re going to be upset.

I just dont want to be misunderstood.


#50

Again I can see your justification for all the points you are making
and I know the influences you are referencing apply to all the work
discussed here.

Many people have used these styles to inform there work. Just so i'm
not misunderstood when I talk about sillohuete I am talking about shape
of character not shadowing. The resemblance between Craste, Rex the Runt 

and Batman are not close enough even to call an influence they start with a
completely different premise and end up looking totally different.

I am only suggesting you take the work forward in a way that it becomes 
it's own, in both style and direction. Only you can know if that will be the 
case. It seems I am not the first person to flag up it's resemblance so I

think my points are valid.

Like you say it would be very dissapointing if you spend time and effort on 
something and it just gets dismissed as a derivitive of something else. As
I have said people can only see the images put in front of them and not
the justification for how the images developed.


Bringing the work into it's own will do that, and on that, I wish you good luck.

#51

Your work is similar to craste in the way that one anime is similar to another, or one renaissance painting is similar to another.


#52

I know, the silhouette on my villain is very very similar, which has caused some sleepless nights over here in the past, and now, again, I’m in doubt about the whole thing. It’s very similar, and also I don’t know who’s being honest with me and who isn’t, well I know that your being honest with me. My technical skills are so bad when it comes to the technical side of animation though that I just wanted to go down this path so that I could get characters walking in full view across sets. I urgently wanted the technical side to not interfere with the story (which it has done in a big way in the past on my other short films).

Would you not say that batmans head is a very simalar shape to Marc Crastes middle character?, only the head mind you.

I know man, and I repect all opinion. I do have two other film projects on the go also. you might want to check of the character work on that.

Yeah, yeah I now have three, well possibly four or five, definitely three who want the project terminated. which is nice…lol. Well maybe one of them doesn’t want it terminated per say, but says that I cant sell the animation. I urgently am getting towards the point though where I NEED to sell something, so hearing that is slightly upsetting. I mean this has gone on for five years now, five years out of art college with no job, I’ve been offered plenty of jobs, but I say no to them, I’m damned if I’m going off and working for some company, I just wont do it, not unless they offer me the job of director. I’ll eat jam sandwiches till the day I die, I don’t care. As long as I can direct, I don’t care what my financial situation is (as long as I can buy the jam and the bread that is).

Thank you. If you want to see more of my work, keep an eye out, as I might start up new threads for my other films “Servus” and “Errans ALba” here at CGTalk. The forum where they were is sadly no more.


#53

I thought I had said all I needed to say on these images, so I will
reply to your last post as I can see that you have a good attitude
towards critique and are very open to discussion.

I have actually looked at your other work and can see all the influences
you have discussed in that work. I would say none of it even remotely
reminds me of Craste's or anybody else's work. It has stong influence
but you have made it your own. That is very important.

In no way was I implying your whole style was derivitive as this is not
the case. I was only aiming that criticism at the images you have shown
is this thread. It is not really my place to comment on your other work
but your ability speaks for itself.

I gave an honest opinion on the style and direction of this film and I was
not the first to say it was reminiscent of a particular film in more than
one aspect. This has nothing to do with "genre". It is about first impressions
on a style/design that felt a little contrived. Again it is up to you how you
move this film forwards and whether you accept the honest opinions I have
tried to give.

You seem to have taken the comments on board and acknowledged my opions
in a positve way.That is also very important.

I would say, do everything you can to keep learning and growing as an artist,
even if it does mean working on projects you may not feel are particually
challenging. Knowledge is everywhere and even small steps move you forward.

#54

[QUOTE=Lord Dowswell]Yeah, yeah I now have three, well possibly four or five, definitely three who want the project terminated. which is nice…lol. Well maybe one of them doesn’t want it terminated per say, but says that I cant sell the animation. I urgently am getting towards the point though where I NEED to sell something, so hearing that is slightly upsetting. I mean this has gone on for five years now, five years out of art college with no job, I’ve been offered plenty of jobs, but I say no to them, I’m damned if I’m going off and working for some company, I just wont do it, not unless they offer me the job of director. I’ll eat jam sandwiches till the day I die, I don’t care. As long as I can direct, I don’t care what my financial situation is (as long as I can buy the jam and the bread that is).[/size]/QUOTE]

Michael,

I know how you feel, but want to offer there may be choices between two extremes. Many people who have “gotten a break” with their films or 3D films, did it on their spare time. The trick is finding a job that enables you to have time for your own life and work. Some jobs can make such demands of expected total commitment, they use the worker like a sponge, and leave a dried husk behind. But, those are not all jobs.

It’s almost cliche, but many of the shorts and 3d films I’ve seen made by “one man in his bedroom” often have the detail of, oh, yeah, he worked for ILM or Stoic for 5 years rigging scenes for a TV series… The point is, they also LEARN things at these jobs, learn from OTHERS working there, and are able to “stand on the shoulders of giants.”

Maybe you find a job that leaves you time to still pursue your own work. Work on it nights and weekends. People that want to completely follow their own vision, and wait until the world recognizes them, often are either committed to poverty as the price of their art, or sometimes have trust funds that allow them to do as they please. The former is much more common.

As you are working in 3D, which requires software and computers, you may see some sort of job as merely a means to an end, to fund your art. If you do not come up with a way to fund your art, you may not be able to even do it, if they shut the electricity off.

If you find a job that doesn’t take 99% of your life, you can fund your art, learn from others, and make contacts.

You can then SHOW your contacts what you did, and they can view it WITHOUT the pressure of “I WANT YOU to view this and hire me”… It’s much less a hard sell if people see what you are capable of without it having to be a literal “sales pitch” or implied job application.

Look at it this way, I was doing boring day work. So in my spare time, I did work I wanted to do for fun. I showed that to someone, and they hired me to do something similiar for them. By doing examples of the kind of work I wanted to do first, that was like using the right bait to fish with. Showing around my boring day job work, would lead to more boring day job work…

But the point was, as a COMMITMENT to my art, I took a boring job to enable me to keep the lights on while I did my art. Taking a job doesn’t have to be selling out. If it’s the right job, it may not directly be your ultimate dream, but it could enable you to progress in your dream.

HTH,
Joe


#55

Hey Joe!

It’s been a while. Hope you are well over there dude.

I know exactly what your saying here, because I have experienced that in the past at the art college I went to, I found being in that environment with other 3D people, all doing the same software, to be highly beneficial at times…I learnt a lot from one of the other students who very kindly taught me some stuff. It was definitely highly beneficial.

It’s very assuming of me to say that going off and having a job somewhere is the death nail because I just don’t know how it would go…it could go very well…or…it could go very badly. It would have to be a good company that you knew 100% was good. But it’s definitely wrong of me to be so assuming about it jumping the gun into convincing myself that its a bad thing for me.

Your right that its all about the RIGHT job coming along, it’s also all about moving house or moving country.

I know it may sound crazy this, and its jumping topic again, but sometimes I think that the isolation is very beneficial too, it makes you think a lot about your story…silence I believe and lots of it is very important in the creative process. I find my surroundings nice to work in. The hardness and the lack of money to the situation I find stimulates the mind into a more creative state. I don’t want to get too personal about myself and give out my personal situation here with my current situation, I really don’t want to write it down in here as its too personal, but I do believe my current situation does make me more creative. All I can say is that its to do with isolation, time and silence.

It’s maybe that I’m a bit of a self torturer, but I have four projects on the go and its taking up huge huge amounts of time. I believe in them and I have more ideas for even more animations after these are complete, somehow as each one is let lose, I believe that something will happen…I hope. But I just want to see them made, the thing is that this could go on for another five to ten years.

But you dont know how much it means to me that you would take the time to write out somthing like this out dude. Your a honest real down to earth helper of people.


#56

bad thing?..good thing? :slight_smile:


#57

That’s cool,:slight_smile: yeah I have to say that the learning new things part is very important, and is something I’m really terrible at, learning the techical side of it all that is, It’s something I sometimes debate with a friend of mine is that surely we all have our limits, and also you have to WANT to learn in order to learn properly and be useful, or in order for it to go forward at a good speed…saying this though you may hate it initially, and then gradually get to like it over time…its definitely one of these things that you don’t realise your learning as your learning…only over a long time do you realise that you actually learnt quite a bit.

I dont know if the project will get terminated or not, I dont think that it can, it’s just too far down the track. i’d like to know how Studio Aka and Marc Craste feel about it, again though how do you know when your being told the truth or not.

And also, I dont want to upset anybody, thats the last thing I want to do.


#58

Just puting this image in here from the thread that got moved into this section of CGTALK (WIP/Critique: Animation), but was never in this actual thread.


#59

Micheal,

Many of the things you said are true for many creative types… people with the inner need to create. You sound very prolific. I jot down my ideas and story ideas, and sketches… I was just going through some papers and found a collection of various ideas for art and short stories from the summer. I forgot about those, and already have a drawer of ideas. The thing I realize more and more, is I right now probably have more ideas than I could possibly complete, even if I never added new ideas! So, I write them down to not forget them and maybe will combine the best of the ideas or build on them, but I have to be more selective in terms of what I start for fear of having too many projects going that would collapse under their own weight. I just say this, I have more ideas than I can do, which is good in a way, better than haivng no ideas, but I also give myself permission to pick and choose, and it’s not failure if I can’t finish or do them all…

The short version of the “day job” thing, is a job that won’t burn you out. I have friends that are creative and made their own projects, but for a time their day jobs burned them out with long hours, they had nothing left for their projects.

The job may not even have to be an animation job… There could be the romantic “shop clerk by day - artist by night”. I just caution that most anytime working for someone else, you end up doing things you don’t particularly feel like doing! : ) So, the bar might be too high to “find a 100% perfect job.” I don’t know if such a thing exists… and if it does, there are very few jobs like that. Plus it all depends on the person, the worst aspect for one person, might be a minor triffle for another.

A compromise is a job that is not so demanding to burn you out (leaving energy for your projects) but also provides some satisfaction, even just in craftmanship or a job well done. Maybe a partime job would be good? I thnk just finding something that doesn’t burn you out is the biggest thing, more so than the perfect job. Besides, if a job is 75%-80% ok, you could do that and always switch if a better job comes along…

Maybe there are some inroads into other creative areas that would be more open to your ideas as well, like local theater groups, or alternative theater groups… maybe someone is doing a stage version of Metropolis or The Cabinet of Dr. Calgari and you could do 3D set visualizations? Maybe look at what you like to do, and see, outside of 3D shorts, who might be in a simliar vein?

Just some thoughts… I’ve been working for many years, and “the man” hasn’t beaten having a need to create my own projects out of me! I just make sure I have a job that leaves me wiggle room to have a life!

: )

Joe


#60

I have a screen talk that Marc Craste did at the Bradford animation
festival and he discusses this very thing. He concludes that he does
not really care if peolple are influenced by his work as he is influenced
so heavily.

I’m sure Studio Aka would feel the same. I can’t see how it affects them.

Although there are similarities, I think it is you it affects. It is you that
has to be comfortable with the design and how people will perceive it.