The non official Messiah 2.4 BUG tracker

#241

Chill out, I was just pointing out that the issue is more involved then just activating or not activating. If you right-click-drag a key in graph editor while in All Channels mode, it will activate your inactive keys on other chanells too, but they’ll stay in place, not snap back to where they were when last active. I’d prefer to have this behaviour on the dope master. Obviously, having a dropdown to select what behaviour you want would be perfect.

BTW, middle-clicking on the dopemaster while in All Channels will not create keys in channels that already have an inactive key in them, they’ll just remain inactive. Pressing the “Create” button will create them. That sucks, too.

#242

Hi mkovacic,

I disagree with your 90% comment. Personally I find that I always want my inactive keys to remain inactive when I drag in the dopemaster. When you have multiple channels it’s way too dangerous to have keys becoming active without you knowing. I’ve also got a setup where I have some useful keys pushed off to the right and I want to be able to drag copy them to any part of my timeline. With the inactive keys becoming active that simply isn’t possible. I can’t think of a single time I’ve wanted it to work the other way round.

Not wanting to start an argument - just my take on it. :slight_smile:

#243

Inactive should stay inactive regardless of moving keys around. Period.
Everything else sounds horrible to me.
You can easily get your “activate in place” by just creating a key on top of the old inactive ones, so the functionality is there already I think.

Just the bug has to go. Don’t make it more confusing as it has to be :wink:

Cheers.

#244

Absolutely agreed here. We’re running constanty into this issue here, and this is something that has bugged me for a long time. Have keys on different frames for different channels, on multiple items, and you want to shift those keys in time in the dopemaster, with the channel edit set to e.g. Motion, or Object - you get a complete mess because new keys are created/activated all over the place. Setting the channel edit to individual and multi-selecting the individual channels in the list isn’t really an option, when you want to edit multiple objects at once this is way too tedious. You can use the Distord Key Range to some extend, but it’s isn’t by far as flexible and straight forward as the dope master would be, especially if you just want to edit certain parts of the animation, or a certain object selection. This is an issue where all the benefits of the dope master get lost :sad::banghead:
Please, please, please, can we this fixed!

#245

I’ve got my pitch fork and I’m lighting a torch.:twisted:

The only way to placate me now is to fix the dopemaster bug and then dangle dynamic parent in place infront of me. :smiley:

#246

UMMM. DRAG AND DROP PIP!!!

With easy access armatures please!

#247

After all this nonsense, I have no idea anymore what BUG you are talking about?!?
The dynamic parenting thing remains a good one, because I’m not really happy with our existing dynamic parent set myself…it works, but it’s really a little patchy for my taste, too.

My brains are a little numb today, so I can’t get too much into the whole “everyone wants things a certain way”-thing and the “it’s-tough-if-not-impossible-to-please-everyone-by-default”-thing, either! :argh:

Instead I’d like to say that a good workflow, once it’s established, should be subject to adaptation by all the users, you know. If you can achieve your goals with a great fluent and fast type of procedure, even if it is not the way you were thinking it would work, it is still good or even fantastic. Every software has a certain style and certain ways to approach things. Explore the possibilities and don’t hesitate to do what you might consider and extra step at one place, because it most likely takes away a lot of other extra steps at other places! (e.g. making a key for all channels if you want to offset the current position of them in time as opposed to an automated solution!) By the way…you can always right click on “create”, which should do the job…I work like that a lot!

Coffeetime for me…

#248

Often times when I’m learning a new package I get so caught up on not being able to do one specific thing the way I was used to doing it before. . . that I miss out on all the other great things that package has to offer. For years I lothed Lightwave’s modeler. I was so caught up on not being able to select edges that I just couldn’t bring myself to use it. But over the years I have slowly gotten used to how things work and now find it invaluable.

With Messiah I often wish it worked like Animation Master. I found A:M to have the most intuitive workflow. Especially in the way it deals with re-usable actions. But slowly I have learned to love motion clips and appreciate the way Messiah thinks.

Taron, you guys are really doing a great job of nailing a lot of “annoyance” bugs and I hope you don’t stop getting rid of them. There are a lot of things in Messiah that feel like kludges instead of real nice elegant “good workflow” solutions. But at the same time. . . I hope others realize that the more you ask for these little things. . . the slower the big mind blowing things take to develop.

<Translation> — QUIT LISTENING TO THESE FOOLS AND GIVE ME FUR DAMN YOU! :twisted: — </Translation>

#249

A hair/fur solution is my main request as well! :slight_smile:

#250

Yes, yes, yes…fur…hair…the order is placed! :smiley:

#251

Hi Taron,

OK, I’ll try and make the two issues of confusion clear. It’s not a preference thing, one’s a bug and one’s a feature request.

A. The dopemaster Thing
Imagine having several objects/channels in the graph editor. When moving (or copying) cells using the dopemaster, we don’t want any of the inactive keys for any of the objects/channels to become active as they currently do. It seems like a bug.

B. The Parent In Place Thing
A function that allows you to dynamically parent an item in place for use in animation. So that a character can ‘pick up or catch’ an item at any time easily. At present there is no function that allows you to do this - a feature request.

Taron, I was joking about the pitch fork and torch! I think you guys are doing a seriously good job! Keep it up and keep up the communication!

Thanks :thumbsup:

#252

One more feature request :slight_smile:

There will be a great feature, the option to change the color of a item. Yes, with groups, change the color is possible, but I think that a right click menu in the item list to change the color of a item is more usable.

I allways use the groups in my rigs, but I don´t like to change the color of my Items doing this.

Thanks!!

#253

http://maks.free.fr/temp/dope_master_issue_xvid.avi

#254

That does illustrate the problem perfectly :thumbsup: Thanks Maks!
it really can drive you nuts at times always have to work around this problem.
Retiming an animation only using dopemaster could be a matter of seconds, instead you have almost always go the compose-way combined with distorting keyranges in edit…
It would be a great hassle-saver getting rid of this nasty behaviour…

Maybe just “deactivating” the inactive-key-feature by default and/or having a toggle for it in the Key-Editing-Tab would be possible in a future patch?!? Would that make sense?

Maybe its just me, but I cannot recall a single occasion where I really saw advantage in using inactive keys at all…:shrug: But its also that I am just starting again to animate in messiah after almost 2 years now. So what do I know… :rolleyes:

its amazing how much you one can forget in such a short period of time but its actually fun fiddling with the tool again. And a well behaving dopemaster would it make an even greater joy :slight_smile:

  • Lo
#255

Thanks maks - great way to demo the issue!

Fishead:
“Maybe just “deactivating” the inactive-key-feature by default and/or having a toggle for it in the Key-Editing-Tab would be possible in a future patch?!? Would that make sense?”

That would work for me, can’t speak for the others.

#256

[QUOTE=DMack]
B. The Parent In Place Thing
A function that allows you to dynamically parent an item in place for use in animation. So that a character can ‘pick up or catch’ an item at any time easily. At present there is no function that allows you to do this - a feature request./QUOTE]

http://www.animationsnippets.com/plugins/index.html

I have used this before. It works as advertized. . .

#257

[quote=“Wegg”]

Sorry Billy, but this one, while handy in certain situations, doesn’t parent in place neither, it’s rather like the regular dynamic parenting fucntion, but for multiple parents. Imagine a dynamic parent function where the child doesn’t change place and orientation while switching parents.

#258

The way I used it. . . was to have nulls in my scene that were parented to whatever I needed them to be. Then when I needed it to “parent in place”, the frame before the switch was to happen, I would move the null where it needed to be in space/time and then with that plugin, adjusted the channel so that it switched parents on that frame.

No its not an elegant/intuitive solution but it worked for my needs.

#259

Sure, there are workarounds, we do that here too - but a more direct solution, as in most other 3d packages (see my post earlier in this thread about e.g. XSI) would save some (sometimes big) hassle :slight_smile: Almost every serious CA software has that! :wink:

#260

Well. . . then. . .

WE SHOULD HAVE IT TOO!

/me grabs his pitchfork.