The French Maid And The Mummy, Steven Stahlberg (3D)


#73

as far as maya hair, i dont know what exact problems you are having, but in general the problems i have had are that its impossible to style precisely, and the render quality is not always great, the workarounds i have found to these issues are:

if you put control curves of similar amount, shape, and size to how you would use opacity mapped planes, i find that much easier than attempting to style the maya hair via letting it automatically make the control curves that stick straight out and attempting to run a simulation untill it is coaxed into the shape you have in mind. that is definitely an exercise in frustration… but if you model the curves to what you want the hair start position to be, and make them dynamic via the hair convert to hair curve option, you are in business pretty fast, or if its just for a still, screw it, dont make them dynamic at all, then you really have no excuses if its not right :slight_smile:

also dont be afraid to use 2,3,4 different hair brushes in different areas of the head, for example hair around the edges of the forehead is usually finer than right on top and so on… i mean the hair system isnt that sophisticated that it will do much automatically to get very realistic results, regardless of the marketing…

but the other thing of maya hair is it renders (at least its an option) using paintfx, which i think can give a more realistic hair than is possible with mapped planes, as each individual strand is shadowing geometry etc. so you could just use regular paintFX with hand modelled and positioned control curves to style it, as some people used to make hair before the maya hair feature… and you can convert the pfx to poly before render time to do any shading you would do on any other polys, so you can put on any kind of crazy realistic shaders and shadowing and whatnot if you really feel its needed.

also i hope this isnt an insultingly basic tip, but rendering paintFX you should alway always always render it separately and composite, especially for anything thats supposed to halfway match realistic 3d, the lighting just never seems to quite work out the same on the pfx and the geometry but its tweakable in post.

i guess i would say, maya hair, despite the name, is just one tool in a workflow to make decent “realistic” (i.e. simulating every strand) hair, the fact that they call it “hair” is a bit optimistic… but it does save a number of steps vs. previous workflows in maya and have a new dynamics that works pretty good. but regardless of how you do it, i think computers are fast enough now that hair on realistic characters, should have every strand, one way or another… its noticeable, especially compared to how realistic say the lace is, or the detail of the mummy.


#74

Sounds like very good advice, thanks. I shall try it sometimes.
Acutally, I have tried converting PaintFX to geometry to render it in MR, and it ran out of memory. :slight_smile: But I’ll try it again sometime.
I’ve also tried the compositing approach, but it’s much more work than straight rendering, especially when you want the interactive shadows to look good - from the hair to the body, and from the body and other objects onto the hair. Each pass becomes almost as slow as rendering the whole thing together, plus all that work to set up the two passes, and comp it.
And trying to render the hair in Maya and the body in MR is even more difficult I think. Maybe there’s a quick, easy and good-looking way to get a good final comp out of that, but I haven’t found it yet. :slight_smile:

edit:
Of course if all I want is a still I might save some effort, for instance by painting shadows… it seems a shame to go through all that R&D effort though and not be able to use it for animation… but it’s one solution to still image 3d hair.


#75

[QUOTE=Stahlberg]Sounds like very good advice, thanks. I shall try it sometimes.
Acutally, I have tried converting PaintFX to geometry to render it in MR, and it ran out of memory. :slight_smile: But I’ll try it again sometime.
I’ve also tried the compositing approach, but it’s much more work than straight rendering, especially when you want the interactive shadows to look good - from the hair to the body, and from the body and other objects onto the hair. Each pass becomes almost as slow as rendering the whole thing together, plus all that work to set up the two passes, and comp it.
And trying to render the hair in Maya and the body in MR is even more difficult I think. Maybe there’s a quick, easy and good-looking way to get a good final comp out of that, but I haven’t found it yet. :slight_smile:

PFX to polys does create quite a few polys in the output, again i think compositing workflows become required to handle the complexity, vs. rendering it all at one pop. i’ve rendered scenes with cumulatively millions of polys, but not all in one render pass :slight_smile: so no matter what, if you want really realistic hair, i think at this stage of technology progress you are stuck into compositing and a lot more work, but on the other hand the results are absolutely acheivable and there are many examples right here on cg talk. so its a question of if the results are worth the time it takes, like everything else with CG, heh. given the quality of the rest of your image, i think it’d be worth the extra effort, but thats obviously just imo :slight_smile:

the maya render layers actually work pretty good now, you can set them up to create a shadowed geo image and a separate hair only image from a single batch render… for that matter i think one could use MR and one maya software. it still might take awhile to render but at least its painless to launch it.

i agree that having to composite stuff is a workaround in this case, not a time/effort saver… but i do find that once i have bothered to set up comps i usually wind up appreciating the increased flexibility at some point and saying, geez, good thing i am compositing this or i’d be crying at having to re render all of X because of Y tiny defect. especially if you are considering animating it.


#76

I like this one a lot , Steven :slight_smile:

Funny with the little text, and very nicely done. The girl is of course beautiful, but the face has a very powerful character, great job.


#77

Beautiful…im picking Mental Ray…thats final…


#78

yenvalmar, thanks, yes layers can certainly be a godsend, I will give it another go with Paintfx and layers when I can get to work on hair again.

mv, thanks! :slight_smile:

maranello55, thanks! But I’m sure you could get similar or better results with any of 5 or 6 other renderers… :smiley:


#79

LOL very funny Steven! Great image! :thumbsup:


#80

Hi Steven,

That’s a very cool picture. You aced this as usual :thumbsup:
But … huuuu, is she really french ? houlala !:bounce:


#81

Well… its a piece of art. Interesting lighting and (a usuall ) veery good modeling and texturing.
The mummie seems quite happy :slight_smile:


#82

Stahlberg, I don’t know if you’re still reading the replies on this thread, but there’s something I noticed on your renders that bothers me… I don’t know if it’s just an impression of mine, but here it goes: All your models (the maid here, for instance) look “too static”. You know what I mean?
They kinda look like statues. Not like they’re living creatures.


#83

I guess THIS looks like a statue too…

just kidding, well anyways the image seems really funny and artistically it looks very yours, specially the female. Anyways let me tell you that I prefer more “serious” stories, like u usually make :slight_smile:

edit: Oh, and yeah maybe I agree about the composition, a more comic one would make good things!


#84

Let us know when you get back to it.

Its a great piece!


#85

great work :applause:
can i ask you pic to the skin network Shader :applause:
you r realy artest
i love your render too


#86

Thank you!

Here’s the skin shader network:


#87

Sugestions. I found her by accident. But…you know what to do :). Follow collegeUS marketing team, they should have her data.

Enjoy natual beauty (0% of plastic) :

No further contact. I’m glad i could help. Voila. C’ya
I can be the Mummy. hehe


#88

thank you Stahlberg


#89

Man I would tottaly hit that… That mummy all wraped up and decayed like that… such a turn on


#90

Hey there,

Another master piece!
This thread is full of your teachings, oh my, thanks a lot.

Best wishes!


#91

very cool work, can you show some screenshot of scene in wire and hypershade network more closely :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


#92

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