I’m continuing my project
The French 74 Gun Ship
musashidan
#22
This is a mammoth project! 
Large-scale, highly detailed ship AND a realistic, highly detailed character. Hats off to you. Huge amount of work.
The sword is beautiful. Excellent modeling and incredible attention to detail.
Also, the admiral has real character already. He even looks French. 
Brilliant work.
AJ13
#26
Dude, this is all amazing work! The sword, boat, and face are all top notch.
Do you have any compositions to combine all three of them, or are they meant to be separate stand alone projects?
Some of the trim work on the ship looks too large, and it makes it look like a model. Its a subtle effect, but if your trying to make this thing look big, they're the kind of details that matter.
The gap between the planks looks too large. They were meant to be water tight, so they fit together pretty snugly. The planks on the bottom near and below the waterline were almost thicker than they are wide, while the ones near the top at the rails are like 1/3 as thick. They were cut on these giant horse/ox powered rotary saws, and were pretty sharp and evenly cut. If there would be any kind of noticeable joint between the planks, its should probably bulge out, rather than in. They hammered some kind of tar/hay based sealant in the joints.
Some of the decorative stuff was only a few inches deep. The trim work on the hull was carved out of hull planks, and was a little deeper, but a lot of the stuff on the stern was just a thin decorative veneer. The head rails on the bow were just thin decorative pieces as well.
Have a look at some real ships like HMS Victory, USS Constitution, HMS Surprise, or the Hermione, and try not to trust the models too much. A lot of the period ones were "ideal" versions presented to kings and admirals, with decorative trimmings and carvings exaggerated. The real ships apparently came out looking much flatter, as ship builders would cut down on excess weight and material usage.
[http://monkeysandmountains.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/LHermione-French-frigate3.jpg](http://monkeysandmountains.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/LHermione-French-frigate3.jpg)
[http://www.mbrochu.com/calif09_0609.jpg](http://www.mbrochu.com/calif09_0609.jpg)
Poisk
#27
Hi! Thank you for your comments!
Do you have any compositions to combine all three of them, or are they meant to be separate stand alone projects?
It will be separate stand alone projects character and the ship. I work together with Anastasia Fileva for one person ship and the character is too much. She made a part of the decor of the ship. and now she work with character.
I want to do something like this
and possibly close-ups with a strong DOF
Some of the trim work on the ship looks too large, and it makes it look like a model. Its a subtle effect, but if your trying to make this thing look big, they’re the kind of details that matter.
Yes I agree with you completely. You’re right.
the main problem for me was, that I can’t use the texture of high resolution in large numbers on my laptop, can’t sculpt seams correctly and bake them in the texture. so I decided to make a separate board geometry. I tried to make the plank texture on boats and was not satisfied with the result, it will take too many textures, more than I can use
The gap between the planks looks too large. They were meant to be water tight, so they fit together pretty snugly.
I was in Stockholm museum Vasa and decided to make the board more relief that they had a good read from a distance
The planks on the bottom near and below the waterline were almost thicker than they are wide, while the ones near the top at the rails are like 1/3 as thick. They were cut on these giant horse/ox powered rotary saws, and were pretty sharp and evenly cut. If there would be any kind of noticeable joint between the planks, its should probably bulge out, rather than in. They hammered some kind of tar/hay based sealant in the joints.
the ratio of the thickness and width I took from the book "The seventy-four gun ship vol.1"J.Boudriot. location and thickness of the boards I have reproduced from his schemes, even where I might be wrong, but in general all corresponds to the schemes. The thickest planks located at the area waterline.
Some of the decorative stuff was only a few inches deep. The trim work on the hull was carved out of hull planks, and was a little deeper, but a lot of the stuff on the stern was just a thin decorative veneer. The head rails on the bow were just thin decorative pieces as well.
they look very thick, even in such huge structures
Have a look at some real ships like HMS Victory, USS Constitution, HMS Surprise, or the Hermione, and try not to trust the models too much. A lot of the period ones were “ideal” versions presented to kings and admirals, with decorative trimmings and carvings exaggerated. The real ships apparently came out looking much flatter, as ship builders would cut down on excess weight and material usage.
most valuable refs gives HMS Victory it is closest to my ship. I tried to use it.
Do not forget that modern replicas can not use a quality hardwood that were used before, and sizes, thickness, change the method of processing boards
I think even the appearance of HMS Victory has changed a lot due to repairs and large coat of paint.
when I visited the Vasa Museum, I was impressed by the size of boards and decor that was used, everything seemed very rough and huge, but it certainly was a different era.
When I studied the material on my ship, and there I saw the huge size. I tried to show this.
I’ve been studying all the comments, discuss my work with modellers ships from wood, all the comments help me to critically look at my work and make improvements. when I will see the ship with sail, I will make another pass of texturing fix décor size, etc.
AJ13
#28
Cool man, it sounds like your pretty on top of your research.
Don't forget the Vasa capsized and sank almost immediately on launch because it was too top heavy... ;)
The French Frigate recreation Hermione is probably the best reference for small details on these types of ships. Other than using power tools and steel bolts, they tired to recreate things as accuracy as they could. Notice how the main hull is thick, but all the small non structural details like stern lights, rails, belaying points and edge timings are thin and sharp.
[http://www.hermione.com/media/0510smfront2__009345800_1641_02062010.jpg](http://www.hermione.com/media/0510smfront2__009345800_1641_02062010.jpg)
[http://images.sudouest.fr/images/2014/05/15/peinture-du-tableau-arriere-du-navire-le-26-novembre-2009_1817334_1200x800.jpg?v=1](http://images.sudouest.fr/images/2014/05/15/peinture-du-tableau-arriere-du-navire-le-26-novembre-2009_1817334_1200x800.jpg?v=1)
The drawings and models don't reflect what the actual 170 foot long ship will look like. I kind of went though a similar epiphany with a similar project I worked on. I followed the drawings and models as closely as I could, but my model just didn't look big or realistic. It looked like well... a small model.
I started incorporating details and proportions from the real ships, and it really helped the impression of scale on my model. It looked a little flatter and didn't "pop" as much, but I think the sense realism and scale was more important.
Poisk
#29
Are you familiar with the monograph J.Boudriot - The seventy-four gun ship?
This is scientific work reveals all aspects associated with these class of ship, from tree selection to the drawings of all units ship with their real size. I’m trying to follow as closely as possible to that book. It’s hard to measure the real ship, but you can take all the dimensions from old drawings
people who building the replica ships use the same information, only they have problems with finding a suitable timber.
on the real old ships, huge details.
Modern replicas look fragile, and they are smaller class
I do not use the model as a reference, I use old historical drawings of real ships
Reason why Vase sank isn’t big weight, reasons well described in the literature
AJ13
#30
No worries man. I didn’t mean to question your research and methods, or start a “who knows more about late 18th century ship building” contest.
Do keep in mind that the J.Boudriot books were based on his study of surviving models in museums in the 1960's. It was meant to be more of a study of a generic French third rate from the 1780's that showed general methods of construction though graphic illustrations. It was not at all a dimensionally accurate blueprint of a specific ship. Its a fantasic referance, but I wouldn't stress out about following the lines exactly.
Just from my research into English ships of the time, no one really knows what these things looked like or any idea of measurements beyond the main hull dimensions. They were just simply not built to that kind of accuracy, so the exact measurements never existed.
I see a lot of "could be one of these three gun port layouts", or "could be one of the following 4 hull frame layouts", or "knee joint was between 1.5'-2' ", or "based on speculation", or "this beam may or may not have been present".
Several authors like J.Boudriot have gone back and tried to make a comprehensive study of these ships, but its still a lot of educated guess work. Notice how several of the comprehensive plank by plank guides for Nelson era HMS Victory all show different designs, proportions, and patterns.
I wouldn't be so dismissive of using the Hermione for proportions of small details. I don't think they would've spent all that money on the hull and rigging, only to skimp out on a few small deck trimmings. Its a real ship, not a drawing.
I went though a similar phase your at with your model now. It looks great, and its totally majorly proportionally accurate and has all the small details modeled. I took a maybe a 2 year break on it, and when I came back, I noticed it looked kind of puffy, and the small details were way too exaggerated. I spent a few weeks sharpening it up, and it really helped.
At least in England, the ideal timber for ship building was long deforested and extinct by the late 18th century. Its one of the main reasons they had to start using iron for certain fittings. You mention that modern ship builders could have a hard time finding ideal timber, but I think they also had a hard time with this back then as well.
