The 'Davy Jones' appreciation thread (Now with Photos!)

[roger]

Roger:

Dunno about Art of, or Making Of books. I don’t think there was one for the first film, but then again, there is a lot more of a merchandising push this time around.

Thanks Hal…and yes your right, there was no Art of or Making Of book for the first film. There was even no coverage in Cinefex on the first one.
Maybe they can do a Art of book on ALL three films next summer…?

-R

[urgaffel]

Just wanted to say thanks for quieting that little voice in the back of my head that always points out what’s practical in films and what is digital. Upon seeing Davy Jones it just kind of fizzled out and said “That’s a pirate with an octopus growing out of his face”. Thanks for rejuvinating my sense of wonder. Astounding work on the film all around!

Quoted for complete and utter agreement. Davy Jones was completely believable and the best 100% CG character (my brain just goes pffst and shuts down at that thought) I’ve seen.

Thank you so much Mr Knoll, Hickel, Chu, Hong and the rest of the people who worked on this movie that have posted here, it’s really something else to have the masterminds behind this achievement to come in and reply to questions and explain about the process.

Once again, mind blowing job on everything Davey (and the rest of the crew of course :D)!

I wish I was going to Siggraph this year… Maybe next year you’ll have another presentation on the 3rd movie? And Davey Jones will be in it too? Please say yes since I’m more or less certain I’ll be able to go next year

Thank you so much for suspending disbelief so artfully. You really created magic this time

[fgdf]

I haven’t seen it yet but it looks promising. I also wanted to have a nice wallpaper but I found this - a compilation of Jones posters

-cheers

[DJ-Nicke]

Could you guys give me some tips on how you achieved Davey’s realistic eyes?

1. In my research and reference, it appears that the Eyeball actually moves in and out of the socket at times. IE, squinting would push it into the socket, wide-eyes would push it out. Also, looking towards the outer corner seems to pull the Eyeball towards the inner corner slightly. Are these kinds of subtleties built into a rig like Davey Jones or Hulk? Are they important in achieving photorealism and characters that live?

2. What is the actual shape of the eyeball? How close to a sphere are your eyes, or do they more closely resemble the slightly egg shape of human eyes? Again, is this shape important in getting absolute realism?

3. How many control points do you have around the eyes in the base mesh? When making your blendshapes, do you use a skull reference to keep the proper volume to the face/eyesocket? Any tips on keeping the face looking fleshy? I know it comes down to the artists ability, but are there some insider tips and tricks you can share?

4. How do you imitate the close relationship between Eyeball and Eyelid? Is this simulated or built into blendshapes, a bit of both, proprietary and top secret?

5. What kind of shaders do you have on your eyes? Do you have SSS on the base layer of the Eyeball then maybe a shiny raytrace layer over top? What about the Iris? Is it reflective with a refractive cornea on top? Also, the white of the eye; do you mix in some blue or red, or are there sub-layers of veins?

These kind of things never really get covered in magazines or presentations, but I think they are so important. Thanks in advance for your help! And again, great work!

-DJ

[Johny]

it came out here at portugal today went to see it.

BRILIANT.

Cg effects were the best i have seen in a while. Davy jones was simply jaw droping…as well as the other cg generated characters. cognratulations ILM ! great story, good laughs, great film. Loved each and every minute.

[TraceR]

I still haven’t seen it yet. Been too busy lately. But it looks very good.

If anyone could do it, it’s ILM. Those guys are just too good.

[HadleyRille]

Could you guys give me some tips on how you achieved Davey’s realistic eyes?

1. In my research and reference, it appears that the Eyeball actually moves in and out of the socket at times. IE, squinting would push it into the socket, wide-eyes would push it out. Also, looking towards the outer corner seems to pull the Eyeball towards the inner corner slightly. Are these kinds of subtleties built into a rig like Davey Jones or Hulk? Are they important in achieving photorealism and characters that live?

2. What is the actual shape of the eyeball? How close to a sphere are your eyes, or do they more closely resemble the slightly egg shape of human eyes? Again, is this shape important in getting absolute realism?

3. How many control points do you have around the eyes in the base mesh? When making your blendshapes, do you use a skull reference to keep the proper volume to the face/eyesocket? Any tips on keeping the face looking fleshy? I know it comes down to the artists ability, but are there some insider tips and tricks you can share?

4. How do you imitate the close relationship between Eyeball and Eyelid? Is this simulated or built into blendshapes, a bit of both, proprietary and top secret?

5. What kind of shaders do you have on your eyes? Do you have SSS on the base layer of the Eyeball then maybe a shiny raytrace layer over top? What about the Iris? Is it reflective with a refractive cornea on top? Also, the white of the eye; do you mix in some blue or red, or are there sub-layers of veins?

These kind of things never really get covered in magazines or presentations, but I think they are so important. Thanks in advance for your help! And again, great work!

-DJ

I’ll let Jungseung comment on the shape questions, but I’ll address the texture and rendering questions. Yes, there is subsurface scattering in the whites. They have very detailed textures that have blotches of color and veins. The whites are actually fairly yellow, since that’s a theme throughout the picture, that all of the pirates (except Jack, Will and Elizabeth) have yellow eye whites and horrible teeth.

The irises are diffuse shaded with a caustic, and the corneas are indeed raytraced.

A lot of the trick of getting realistic eyes is simply attention to detail. Look at photography of real eyes and note what you see.

[zao75231]

Can someone tell me who did the artwork, I would very much appreciate it. Thanks

-Rob

[HadleyRille]

Can someone tell me who did the artwork, I would very much appreciate it. Thanks

-Rob

Not knowing which artwork you’re referring to, I’ll shotgun it:

Davy Jones design: Crash McCreery
Detailed color and texture concepts: Aaron McBride
Actual textures used to render Davy: Steve Walton

[DJ-Nicke]

Thanks for those tips John!

Yes, there is subsurface scattering in the whites. They have very detailed textures that have blotches of color and veins.

Awesome! Was there another raytraced layer over this for the conjunctiva? If so, did you need any subtle noise to mimic the not-perfectly-smooth surface of the conjunctiva? Sorry to pound you like this, but obviously Davey’s eyes worked perfectly on the big screen, so you guys obviously have this down to a science.

The whites are actually fairly yellow, since that’s a theme throughout the picture, that all of the pirates (except Jack, Will and Elizabeth) have yellow eye whites and horrible teeth.

That’s an important tip, thanks man. I think the exact color of a characters sclera can tell you a lot about that characters life. Thanks for sharing man!

The irises are diffuse shaded with a caustic, and the corneas are indeed raytraced.

Nice. So you found that the iris only needed a diffuse color? No raytraced reflectivity? I suppose that would be a bit redundant, since it lies beneath the raytraced cornea. Hmm…

A lot of the trick of getting realistic eyes is simply attention to detail. Look at photography of real eyes and note what you see.

I agree wholeheartedly. Here’s a nice clip of my eyes looking around and blinking/squinting etc:
http://www.synagen.com.au/images/dj_eyes_small.mov

There’s a lot that can be learned from this clip (besides my apparent alcoholism) about the look and movement of photorealistic eyes. Especially the prominence of the highlight between the eyeball and eyelid. This actually has a scientific name: “fornix conjunctiva” and is of paramount importance when showing a character as being “teary eyed.”

Please continue sharing the knowledge guys! And thanks for taking the time John!

-DJ

[zao75231]

So Crash McCreery did the concept art for Pirates 2??

[Bonedaddy]

So Crash McCreery did the concept art for Pirates 2??

And then, two posts up from that:

Davy Jones design: Crash McCreery

Should you want additional confirmation, there’s also a ton of articles referencing Crash’s work on Pirates. Just do a google search for “crash mccreery” and “davy jones”.

[HadleyRille]

Thanks for those tips John!

Awesome! Was there another raytraced layer over this for the conjunctiva? If so, did you need any subtle noise to mimic the not-perfectly-smooth surface of the conjunctiva? Sorry to pound you like this, but obviously Davey’s eyes worked perfectly on the big screen, so you guys obviously have this down to a science.

-DJ

There was a tiny bit of bump on the outer edges of the cornea, and a fair amount on the white. The conjunctiva had a noise function controlling a subtle bump that was scaled in amplitude depending on the render size.

[sphere]

It definitely sounds like there was a lot of attention to detail in the eyes! And so there should be. It really payed off in the end because the eyes were essentially his soul that gave him so much life in front of the camera. Even the very subtle eye movements were fantastic.

I wanted to ask whether Bill walked around as though he had one peg leg or whether that movement was just animated later? I’m assuming the same technique was used for the claw.

[HadleyRille]

So Crash McCreery did the concept art for Pirates 2??

Crash worked with Gore to design Davy and 13 of the other Dutchman characters. These designs are the pencil renderings you’ve probably seen posted on the net:
http://www.keeptothecode.com/uploaded_images/davy_jones-749037.jpg

As you can imagine, there’s a great deal of additional work to design what we’re really seeing (in detail) when we’re in a tight closeup. Aaron McBride did this detailed design work. His renderings look a lot more like photographs, and are really good references for the texture painters. Also, Aaron redesigned a few of the characters at Gore’s request. Compare Maccus’ (the hammerhead guy) design with what’s in the movie.
http://www.keeptothecode.com/gif/conceptartlg/daveyjones_crew2.jpg

This is the original design for Hadras (the guy with the shell head):
http://www.keeptothecode.com/gif/conceptartlg/daveyjones_crew11.jpg

Aaron also designed four new characters that we built when we realized that one of the scenes (turning the Kraken caller) required 18 Dutchmen to be seen in relative closeup. These were Wheelback, Ratlin, Angler, and Old Haddy. Sorry, I can’t point to any online artwork for those characters.

Aaron was our Visual Effects Art Director, and was responsible for all of the rest of the concept design that was needed during production.

[HadleyRille]

It definitely sounds like there was a lot of attention to detail in the eyes! And so there should be. It really payed off in the end because the eyes were essentially his soul that gave him so much life in front of the camera. Even the very subtle eye movements were fantastic.

I wanted to ask whether Bill walked around as though he had one peg leg or whether that movement was just animated later? I’m assuming the same technique was used for the claw.

Bill walked with the crab leg limp on set. He had studied the artwork and Hal had discussed it with him. I was pushing for him to have a rigid boot with a peg-leg point on the sole, because I thought it would really help Bill walk with a realistic affectation. He didn’t want it, and preferred to just act it. I admit he did that very well.

We did make a big 'ol plastic claw for him to wear on set when he had to do something with the claw, like grabbing someone’s neck, or the map, or when he bangs out his pipe.

[moxomule]

Only one flaw: too much subsurface scattering on some shots, it really looked out of place. Not nearly as bad as the kraken (sense of scale anyone? helllooo!) but it just bumped me back to reality every now and again.

i disagree on your subsurface point: there is too much subsurface for human skin true- but Davy Jones skin is supposed to be that of an octopus or ‘cuttlefishlike’ sea creature, not human and the sub surface scattering was perfect for that, especially around the mantle and the little siphons at the side of his head.

way to go ILM- the Davy Jones character is without a doubt the most realistic CGI character to date.

[playmesumch00ns]

I’ll let Jungseung comment on the shape questions, but I’ll address the texture and rendering questions. Yes, there is subsurface scattering in the whites. They have very detailed textures that have blotches of color and veins. The whites are actually fairly yellow, since that’s a theme throughout the picture, that all of the pirates (except Jack, Will and Elizabeth) have yellow eye whites and horrible teeth.

The irises are diffuse shaded with a caustic, and the corneas are indeed raytraced.

A lot of the trick of getting realistic eyes is simply attention to detail. Look at photography of real eyes and note what you see.

I asked this question earlier in the thread, but I guess it got lost: If you’re raytracign refractions through the cornea, how do you deal with the apparent difference in eyeline between animation playblasts and rendered finals?

Also, for the caustic did you do some kind of photon mapping thing, or some hack to get the effect?

Thanks for sharing all the ino guys, very informative!

[Carina]

Any chance of Davy Jones singing “I feel it in my fingers I feel it in my toes, Christmas is all around me…”

[NickJushchyshyn]

First, I’ll join the chorus of congratulators… WOW!
I haven’t seen the film yet, but after seeing the cover of Post (which I also thought showed some amazing makeup work ) and then reading that these characters were 100% CG, I’m already floored. This was going to be a “wait for the DVD” movie for me … now I’ll have to make time to see it before SIGGRAPH.

So here’s my question…
Something like 60 artists, 9 months, 6 days a week (at times) … somewhere around 100,000 hours of work !!!

At what point in the process and/or timeline do you know that you’re really going to be able to nail it like this. Even hit the deadlines for that matter ?!?!?
Did you have the process (including R&D) clearly envisioned when quoting the work, or was it further into the project at some point when a turnover sheet or daily comes along that you know … “we’ve got it!” ??

Again, congratulations on the astounding accomplishments and thank you for bringing magic back to the movies … even for the magicians in the audience.