Hi Micheal, Adam, Neods,
Originally posted by MJV
Now that you’ve been using Max for awhile, do you feel that the move was really worthwhile, and if so, please explain exactly why. Thanks.
Warning, long answer.
Overall, moving to max has been worthwhile in the sense that max fulfills the needs I had. I wanted better modeling and better animation than C4D was offering, and max has given me both. C4D still has various strengths over max, so depending on the work I use max or XL as necessary.
Specifics:
Modeling - max simply has a larger toolset. Ngons are a big one; in addition, the polygonal modeling tools work predictably (ie, correct edgeloops) and have the full range of options you’d expect. For example, you can extrude not only polys, but all edges, points, etc. Or extrude them all along a spline if you like. Do a step-repeat on the last command. And so on. I spend 95% of my time modeling fluidly, not stitching triangle messes back together or giving up on edge-loop selection and whipping out a live-select tool.
MeshSurgery obviously adds a lot of power to XL8. Max already has most (not all) of that power built-in.
Animation - max has a lot of character power. A lot. And despite the common retorts, no - you don’t need character studio. Max’s own bones work fine, and the IK (while not “soft”) is damned accurate. Scripting behaviors into the rig is rather simple once you get the basics of the matrix math down. The dopesheet and timecurves work well, and their interfaces are cleanly designed with plenty of filtering options allowing you to focus only on EXACTLY you wish to. Skinning is very easy… you can use envelopes if you like, or paint weights on the mesh; none of that “set all weights to ZERO to stop a bone from influencing it… and it still manages to move the point” nonsense.
After 2 hours of playing with Mocca, I just screamed and quit the app. After 10-20 mins in max - not even having read the manual - i’d made a perfectly well-behaved leg completely with ankle and knee controllers. I’ve done more character animation in the past 6 months than i did with XL in 5 years. People say “it’s the artist, not the app” - sorry, that’s BS. Everything I knew about rigging (at the time i bought max) i’d learned by reading, or trying to do in C4D. The difference was - max actually gave me the results I wanted to begin with. I didn’t change - the app I was using changed.
Max gets you excited about animating characters. C4D just fills me with dread. Max’s IK starts in a stable, locked type of rig… from there, you add in various “soft stuff” if you like. Conversely, C4D’s rigs start in a state of total “move where ever the hell you want”, and it takes too much work to get it under control.
Basically, Max’s IK is what you WISH c4d’s hard IK was like.
Architecture - ObjectManager-based hiearchy isn’t required for character work. Bones, nulls, controllers, and meshes can exist completely independent of hierarchy. You can do drag/drop groups if you like, sure. But creating a rig with controllers and attaching it to a mesh doesn’t have some of the limitations you find in C4D’s nested parent/child approach.
Plugins and scripts: no brainer. Tons of them out there, and a lot of the great ones are free. A lot of the “regulars” in the max community are production artists or TD’s, and many of them write scripts on a regular basis to solve problems they have at work… and not only do some give them away (scriptspot.com, maxplugins.de), occasionally you’ll even see them take feature requests and implement them.
Want to script yourself? It knocks COFFEE to the mat. I spent a lot of hours trying to learn COFFEE, and never got very far. Maybe it’s just how my brain works, but I never could do much of anything. In max, I’ve written 2 original scripted plugins and modified several 3rd party ones to suit my own needs. COFFEE was made for coders. Maxscript was made for people that don’t have a solid background in C++ or java.
Finally: Expandability. If I want a good toon shader, there are 3 to choose from. Better GI/raytracing? 3 more choices (5, including Lightscape (max5) and MR (max6). More character power? Fine, get CAT, or character studio, or ACT… or several others I’m forgetting. Want more morphing power? Fire? Hair? It’s out there. Yes, it’s expensive to buy all those things but my point is this: they are available if you need them. Not all are perfect by any means, but they do exist and 3rd party development for max isn’t limited to 5-10 major players.
Quick list of “things better in C4D” - Lights & Shadows. Material editing. SLA shaders. Raytracing. Multipass rendering. Yes, some things are better in C4D land… but it goes back to the purpose at hand - when i’m doing celshaded character stuff, they don’t come into play much.
Last thing and then I’ll hush. I get this a lot: “Why did you choose max instead of Maya?” Quite simply, because maya was still $7,000 at the time; I bought max 6 months before the maya price drop. Would I choose it over maya again? I don’t know, but I don’t sit around thinking about it. I’ve tried the PLE a bit, and was left with the impression that although maya might have been a good app alternative (@ $2K), I didn’t waste my money on max.
Sorry for all the text. Hope it answers some questions.
thorn
