The Bright Side


Well after reviewing the PMG section I’ve reliased that Ther a lot of negative posts. I have decided to try to turn this around. Based on the feature list I purchased Messiah Studio and 2 copies of animate. I am going to START learning this progam tonight. I will post both the good and the bad things about these apps right here. Now, I own a small animation studio in Austin Texas and I am an ex Maya instructor. So my specific goal is to put this in a production pipeline. I will place a PMG specific challenge RIGHT HERE and will show you how we pull it off. So let’s start at the begining:


Duration: 10 - 15 seconds

Realistic Appearance

Must have bone and muscle systems

Should use normal maps if possible

Should take advantage of 16 bit displacement maps

Optional: Composite it into a proper enviroment.



#1: So my first concern was that PMG has NO PHONE NUMBER. If you are going to sell to people in production they need to be able to reach you in case of any disasters that may happen. They have been pretty good about email support but as an owner of a production house this concerns me. Email contact causes delays and delays cost money.

#2: There seems to be no displacement maps native in Messiah Studio. (Either I have to make one in their material editor (DOUBTFULL) or I need to write or find a plugin. Please note that there is a big difference between 8bit and 16 bit displacement maps.

#3: I need to research Normal maps in Messiah and see if they have it or if it can be made.

#4: I need to research muscle and bone systems in Messiah.
When I say bones I do not mean standard joints. I mean things like shoulder blades sliding under the dragon’s skin.

#5: The modeling and texuring will be done in Z brush 2

So thats the challenge. Hopefully we can help this package become powerfull in a positive way. If you wish to see a test of using Z2 as a modeler/texturer go to:

My Company site is at:


Well, euhm, good luck.


Hi Eddie,

It’s great to see that you’re getting involved with messiah. I believe you’ll be able to create a fairly realistic bones/muscle system using metaeffectors/bloat and/or spherize. As far as using studio for the final rendering - you’ll run into a few road blocks. studio doesn’t yet support subpixel level displacements but the underlying technology is in place - pmG is purportedly “working on it” for the next update. If you wanted to have a SSS effect on the dragon wings and use image maps to vary the translucency, then you may have to wait for the update. I wasn’t able to achieve this effect (see SSS thread below). pmG has been pretty quiet for the last four months - so, they should be coming out with the latest and greatest shortly … hopefully.

The SSS thread:

A long thread on muscle simulation:

Wings rig by John Riggs - he’s supposedly working on a tutorial for this nice wing setup:

Inherit root - spine or tails by Julez4001:

Old test renders showing a small rendering glitch with Metanurbed five point (star) intersections - they’re working on it:

You can find a lot of interesting threads - but you have to look beyond the 60 days default setting.



I appreciate the leads on info to complete the project. I hope other people get involved and try the challange and post here. :bounce:


My pleasure - sounds like an interesting project. By the way, what app are you going to use to model the dragon creature?

A little inspirational image from the ACS4 site :


i loves dragons. Won’t have the time though - and I’m not much of a rigger anyway.
Look forward to seeing what you do!


What a great Image !!! Thanks for uploading that. As far as the modeling goes , my shop now uses ZBrush V2. We Beta test for those guys and they are FANTASTIC. My crew and I are still recovering from stuff we did for NAB but now that I am awake I can Start on this. :buttrock:


Any updates so far Eddie? Looked like a promising thread, but then just died. :frowning:


It’s not dead. We just got overwhelmed with this show we are doing for PBS. Sorry for the delay but I gotta pay the bills first. I figure by the time we are done v2 of PM will be out. Check back in 2 to 3 weeks.:bounce:


Great!! :bounce:
Thanks for your quick reply. I’m waiting for it.


For the challenge, are you making the dragon available for rig/animate or everyone else have to do everything.
I want to slap my gauntlet down but may not have time to model.


Well I was thinking about this last night and I guess i’ll start by explaining the process a little. It is my intention to do the modeling in wings and detailing it out in Zbrush. Of course the drawings should be done first. Proper ortho’s are a must. If you wish I will supply the drawings and the base mesh Before I detail it. But I think If anyone wishes to play along I think they should make their creations unique. Like I said before I’m right in the middle of a gig (so this has to wait a couple of weeks) But I would love to hear from other people, about if you want the mesh or if you just want drawings etc… As far as the look of my dragon I think I’m going to shoot for a really long neck and hunched shoulders.

I’ll be back…



Hey guys… just jumping in here…
If someone supplies I Dragon model that I can distribute with my training video… I will do a video on it.

Depending on how in depth I go, it could possibly be a 2 CD set… one doing a quadraped, and the other doing the dynamic wings, tail, all that sort of thing.

email me or just PM me thru here… but let me know soon… I am currently producing a tape and the next tape I do was going to be a quadraped tape… so this would be a neat way to do it…

Like I said tho… I would have to be able to give the model away with the CD.

AND as a bonus… whoever gives me the model I use… will get a free copy of the CD :wink: oooooooooo, special I know :stuck_out_tongue:



If you mention us (Pirate Productions) in the tape my studio will supply you with everything you need:thumbsup:


Cool beans!!!:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


Originally posted by EDDIEthePIRATE
If you mention us (Pirate Productions) in the tape my studio will supply you with everything you need:thumbsup:

I can do that… I’ll mention it vocally and put the web address on the screen for a short time… do you allready have a good model?

I wont be ready for another week or so


Originally posted by chikega
Cool beans!!!:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

beans arn’t all that cool

they make you fart :wink:


Beano!!! :thumbsup:


If someone supplies I Dragon model that I can distribute with my training video… I will do a video on it.

I’ve got an old dragon I’d love to tweak up-to-date, maybe with Zbrush texturing. (This is a painted test.)

If you’re interested, let me know.


Originally posted by EDDIEthePIRATE [B]


Duration: 10 - 15 seconds


You made the whole thing in 15 seconds? WOW! :wink: