‡‡‡‡‡ The Bone Zone ‡‡‡‡‡


Great advice about drawings and models.

I like a lot your drawings. They are so fresh.
Specially informations what thay have, becouse this is not a usually presentation of drawing skill. It’s more like dairy, like information which illustrate results of very hard research of human proportion in motion.
Human proportion is very important part of anatomy and certainly first lesson in introduction with bones. We have in history many great masters who have theyown princip of human proportion like: Phidias (Fidia), LYSIPPOS (Lisip), Leonardo, Michelangelo, Direr…etc. It sounds like I’m talking about ninja turtles. :scream:

So, my question is:

Does your research include kinematic anatomy, and if does, what’s your experience about those things, and would you talking here about that?
Thanks in advance,

Andreja Vuckovic
Instructor of
art anatomy and 3d character modeling in
SFCT “Chiron”, Belgrade, Serbia & Montenegro


[i][b]andreja <> thank you for your comments <> not involved with kinetic anatomy at this time <> working on DVD on proportion based on the neurocranio cube

Queensoul <> Yah I like this forum and RK’s works

Vidar3d <> Yes I dirty little trick that I have played on my students during memory exercises is to have the model pose for a minute then get down and have the students draw what they saw.
I do this for about 10 poses.
Then I have the model pose for 2 minutes and of course my students think they got it down at this point <> however when the model gets down I ask to draw the pose 180% or how it would look if they had been standing on the other side of the room.

Rebecca <> Thank you with your support

For those of you who may not know I am doing a dozen or some thumbnails (tiny little buggers)
daily for as long as I can endure &lt;&gt; tackling poses that are a little more challenging and trying to eliminate or at least improve in some of the areas that I are needed.




Out of curiosity, do you teach full time in Dallas? You must have permanent access to lifedrawing sessions, if not. :slight_smile:

Great to see these new studies! This will be a great thread to follow. :slight_smile:




[i][b]I currently have models available 5 or 6 times a week <> however the majority of what I do is from imagination <> 4 or 5 years ago I started learning how to draw the figure in almost any position without a model <> now I am trying to finish the task by working on the poses that seem to be a little more complex.

I am getting to the point where I can do some from the model then turn and change the model into other more active poses. My memory drawings and lfe drawings and drawings from reference have pretty much crossed over to the point that they all look pretty much from the same source which now is mainly memory or a combination of beginning a pose from life or ref and changing it to become more lively.

Most of what I have been doing on this thread is from memory![/b][/i]


Your thread very interesting and useful-here is very clear for understanding how is the right of body perespective on the move. And drawings that you are showing here are better and better one after another. I feel that I so become bored for normal skech papare,pencil or charcoal… And your thread is stimulus to remember about traditional drawing.MY RESPECT.


[i][b]This is something I posted a couple of weeks ago on SoFA which is a concept that I have developed and am concentrating on while doing these drawing from the most part without a model (a few are from my life sessions)

I use the bony landmarks of the body as my road map around the figure and I have found that there are certain landmarks that are key to getting where I want to go <> I am referring to these as
The Core 4 © mentler 2005

The are the pit of the neck <> the bottom of the sternum (not including the xiphoid process) <>
The bottom of the tenth rib and the pelvic triangle (the pelvic points to the pubic bone in the front <> the pelvic points to the bottom of the sternum in back)

Along with positioning this landmarks I noticed that the bottom of the tenth ribs and the top of the pelvic triangle forms a trapezoid or trapezium which tells me a great deal about the tilts twists and turns of the pose.

Incidentally trapezoid and trapezium have opposite meanings in the US and The United Kingdom

Here a page on notes I did for myself.

Inky2 <> Thank you for you kind feedback


Nice work, Michael! :slight_smile:

Have you ever seen the work of Harry Carmean? I had his last class, and basically there is a whole school of drawing built up around his style. I’m personally a huge fan, and have loved his work for years. Definitely check him out! :slight_smile:


[left]Landmarks are well~documented ~ it’s quite cool that you’ve formulated them in your own way! Definitely enjoying watching as this thread takes shape. :slight_smile:

Cheers, :slight_smile:



Landmarks or guideposts have been around for sometime <> I picked it up frim Hale and I am sure he got if from Bridgman or Richer <> I am just repackaging it to work with my program <> the thing that I am emphasising are the core landmarks and really investigating not just where they are in terms of position but also their aspect in space <> my method has 26 landmarks 13 core landmarks (7 front and 5 back) these are dependent on the spine (core)

the other 13 landmarks that I teach are the 13 extended landmarks which move independent of the spine ( the 12 joints and the attachment of the shoulder girdle at the sternum)

This makes a nice little package and corresponds very nicely with the number of letter in the alphabet as well <> I find this useful at times

There are many aspects of my program that make it unique <> but of course nothing is really new, just new way at looking at the same things <> I do think the concept of the torso trapizium is a fairly interesting adaptation as it has seemed to have helped eliminated the problem of elongatated torsos with many of my students <> except of course me and mine is a matter of choice.

The bottoms of the tenth ribs and the pelvic points both front and back provide me with a great deal of information about the orientation of a pose.

Of course as always this info is copyrighted © mentler 2005

Did some 30 second gestures in class lastnight will post them and the extended constructioned I am going to do this morning so all can see what I am referring to by filling up the memory bank.

Very familiar with Harry <> have several students who had him as an instructor at Art Center as well <> did you know the Lorser was one of Bridgman’s students?


Wow, that bit about Lorser Feitelson is a gem…indeed I did not know that! :slight_smile: That’s really amazing…I was (and am) just a huge fan of that whole school. It’s funny, Carmean was a classical singer for a time, and studied at the Ecole des Beaux Arts, which is completely enviable! He then came back to Art Center to teach. I personally far prefer his drawings to his paintings (as is the case with most of those familiar with his work).

Yep, everything old is new again, but it is cool to see it ‘remixed’, as it were. :slight_smile: It’s new to each new generation, and everyone needs a good guide for these great concepts of the past. :slight_smile:

It would be nice to attend one of your drawing sessions. I’m sure it would be fun! :slight_smile: Dallas is pretty far, though. :wink:




[i][b]Wish I had found out about your workshop in time would have loved it!!

   Here is more on skeletal Landmarks the way I teach it &lt;&lt;&gt;&gt; I apologize to all who may have already seen this on SoFA (c) copyright mentler 2005




That’s so sweet of you to say! :slight_smile: I don’t think you need it. :wink:




[i][b]This is what I am doing during class ‡‡‡‡‡ 30 to 45 second thumbnails like the (first page) <> I then flesh them out, so to speak, without reference to see what areas I need to work on ‡‡‡‡‡ there are usually a bunch of em’ so I don’t think I will run out of things to do anytime soon.

You can only master the moment <> once that has pasted you must move on to the next moment.

The interesting thing here is that I thought I scanned the second page, the one I fleshed out but evidently I thought I had so little information that it was not worth pursuing.

I wanted to show a before (thumbnails from class) and after (fleshing out from memory)
but I think you can still get the idea from these two examples!



Can’t look at these too closely at the moment, but definitely will take a better look later on! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :slight_smile:



@Dr. Bone

Your gestures are brilliant! :thumbsup: I come from an engineering type background and so lack this as part of my drawing vocabulary. I’m currently taking life classes in an attempt to rectify this matter though…

Inspiring stuff! Thank you for sharing and I really look forward to reading through this thread when I have more time. :slight_smile:



Michael M,

Lovely studies, BTW, now that I’ve gotten a chance to take a good look. :wink:

Cheers, :wink:



Hey Mr Mentler.

You should change your name in Leonardo Da Vinci. Will you put these pages together in a “codex” one day ? :wink:

Great contribution.


Hi mr. Mentler
These fast sketches are excellent :thumbsup: thats exactly what I have to learn because my
“sketches” takes usually too long and are quite ehmm rigid … well I have been told that I should loosen them … so thats what I try to larn now … but its not easy :slight_smile:

Keep posting these nice sketches and your wise advices …

Well If I’am not mistaken he writes a book and prepares DVD … right ? … :slight_smile:

  • Slux


mentler, you know you have my respect. keep them coming :slight_smile:


Hi there Mr. Mentler :slight_smile:
glad to see u here…thanx for sharing ur great knowledge with all of us !! keep us updated :slight_smile:


[i][b]I do most of these before most of you get up in the morning

   I did the short poses from a model, they were anywhere from 30 seconds to a minute &lt;&gt; I really don't time them because I do not want my students to know how long the pose is going to be.
   I them work out the structure more from memory and also imagination because I often change the poses or create new poses &lt;&gt; I also am doing some totally from memory and occasionally I start from Old Master drawings as reference &lt;&gt; I treat the OM drawings the same as a short pose from the model &lt;&gt; I place the rhythms and position the limbs in about a minute then put the reference aside and work the rest from memory.
   I think I learn a great deal from this process &lt;&gt; trying to do about a dozen a day for a year.


 This is a page of thumbnail constructions from memory &lt;&gt; I do a couple of these first thing in the morning to wake up and get my brain on the same page &lt;&gt; It is how I start my engine
   shyamshriram ‡ Glad to see you here as well my friend
   bumskee ‡ Making the rounds I see ‡ thanks for your support ‡ I think the best well to teach is to learn and let others watch you do it     
   Slux ‡ Obviously doing a lot of drawings is a far better way to learn than doing a few yet I see beginners all the time spending hours and days on one drawing ‡ to me it is all about the beginner of a drawing if that does not contain the elements I am looking for there is not point in going to the next stage ‡ I very seldom work from a model for more than a few minutes then I develop the drawing or painting mostly from memory ‡ I occasionally bring the model back it if I am having problem with something but mostly it is from memory or imagination
   Arctis ‡ Hope these thousands of pages on brain farts fall into the right hands when I die LOL
   Slux ‡ DVD goes slowly but it goes forward
   Rebeccak  ‡ Harry for a teacher I am really jealous as hell ‡ we should start a thread for all the people who have had really greats as teachers and let them share there experiences
   default.rol ‡ I really would not call these constructive drawings brilliant but then again I won't try to stop you LOL LOL