That old Mac vs Windows Debate

#16

Thank you!
As you said, Linux is NOT and option. I find Linux users really like to sell you to come over, and while I understand the appeal, its just not an option, which I thought was reasonably obvious.

The decision has been made - Mac is a unfortunately a sinking ship and the answer (for this year anyway) is Windows. That said, now I am in a candy store of options and am trying to find the right choice. I know roughly what I want, but to get it all together in a package is taking a little hunt.
(i9, RTX, 64GB (or at least 32gb) ram, and in a reputable brand.

#17

Yes, I am aware of that - Linux is used widely in Hollywood, you know…?

Anyway, I’ll gracefully bow out of the conversation now, just after leaving these 2 links here in case anybody’s interested, and rest assured that these are not “fanboi links” in any way:

https://openvisualfx.com/
http://libregraphicsworld.org/

#18

Agree with the opinion that Macs become useless.:thinking:

#19

I would never recommend linux to a single user for 3D animation unless they were a total linux geek to begin with. There’s some very good reasons it’s used in large studios and render farms where there’s enough staff and expertise to support it. Despite how much easier linux is today, without linux expertise or experience, a person will still likely spend some time digging through the internet trying to figure out how to install or troubleshoot an obscure driver at some point.

For a single user, productivity is most important. IMO macs are fine, but there are concerns. The lack of hardware options, the all-in-one design nature of imacs that risk taking your entire setup down if a single part fails, the potential for the mac market fracturing with ARM CPU’s soon, Apple slowly de-prioritizing the mac platform in favor of iOS, and the smaller amount of software options is what gives me great pause in recommending macs for CG work.

Windows 10 has some mild learning curves too. I often see mac users nervous about switching to Windows. Eventually they come to the conclusion it wasn’t such a big deal to switch after all and that the experience is close enough to a mac to not mind which one they use.

#21

YES, this is probably true! (Hey I popped back in :slight_smile: ). Just saying, forums such as THESE, exist:
http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/
which have entire sub-forums for “Newbie”, “Hardware” and “Installation”. Just saying :slight_smile:

#22

@BadBilly to be honest for my money, an optimal thermal solution should be a primary consideration, especially when the cost of these high end portable form factor’s are also taken into account and design aesthetics aside, there’s obviously something to be said for a bulkier chassis as opposed too ‘wafer thin’ that IMO seems to be a trend at the moment.

#23

The individuals I Mac only for Office workers, also if you want to just get to work just might entertain then use Windows as I am, because I regularly download the game and play the game at apknite. My life will become boring if there are games entertainment

#24

Don’t buy any laptop - the screen panels of many are often crap - before you read its review here:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/

#25

Thanks. Notebookcheck has been a huge deciding factor on my final decision, as were a lot of reviews on sites, and youtube reviews.

It was a close call between the Gigabyte Aero, (the new) MSI P65 or P75 Creator, or the Alienware 17M.

In the end I went with the Alienware 17M: 32gb ram, i9, RTX2080 8gb graphics, plenty of storage but most importantly, beautiful 4k 100% sRGB - important for content creation. A huge reason I went with Dell is for their great support and warranty.

Thanks to all that helped me decide! In the end I got something 2x as powerful as the latest maxed out macbook pro, (and then some), and came out a little cheaper.

#26

WELL WELL WELL!! …So I open up my computer to read THIS in the news:

#27

If you value your peace of mind I would suggest staying with the Mac.

Under heavy use Windows machines are generally just a gargantuan pain in the ass despite there compatibility usefulness in various situations. Therefore I only spot use Windows where I have no alternative. Most software these days is available for both OS’ any efficiency concerns most likely will be resolved in future iterations of the software.

Certainly CUDA is useful in rendering/previewing, but I just haven’t seen it as useful enough to accept all the other long term system stability issues and generally more intuitive UX like keyboard shortcuts etc. with the Mac OS. All these masochists just want you existing in the same hell as they are.

(Truth be told you can excel with either platform it just comes down to where you’re most comfortable, as you probably already know.)

There are some developments that may also make the Mac the better performance choice, but you have to wait until June to really see what it’s gonna be.

With Apple reformulating their “Pro” line of hardware and particularly the desktop along with the OS, so it would behoove you to wait until after WWDC to make a choice. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if they showed up with a new “Pro” line of Macbooks considering the reformulation process, if rumors are to be believed. Aside from that despite high heat concerns the latest MacBooks were performing betting then equivalent Windows laptops, which had biased reviewers like Linus and Austin Evans (mostly Linus) whining about excessive heat when they really were expecting to see much lower performance numbers.

AMD seems to making substantial progress in their fabrication of CPUs and GPUs. Outside of ray tracing specific tasks Nvidia RTX don’t really seem to push forward that far beyond the GTX 1080ti line. Also, it seems that after 3 years Vulkan development is seeing more adoption, the Vega64 graphics benchmarks using Vulkan are quite favorable compared to Nvidia’s newest GPU offerings and being the open standard it’s going to be more preferable then a closed standard to a lot of developers. Apple has a close relationship with AMD where it concerns GPUs so the next gen Macs will likely benefit greatly from AMDs advancements. Hopefully Apple will adopt some AMD CPUs to mix in with their Intel CPUs while leaving the ARM rumors in the dust.

Even though I don’t immediately disqualify ARM as a potential desktop solution for creatives like some people do I highly doubt Apple would be able to reasonably produce such processors with compatibility compromises for non-mobile “Pro” devices at a price many people would accept.

#28

My pipeline is heavily dependant upon Reallusion Iclone pro
for “perpetual license” Character motionbuilding and retargeting.
Reallusion has stated flatly there will be no mac OS version.

I still keep an Old win 7 tower on “Life Support” to run the extemely powerful
( discontinued)Endorphin Ragdoll physics software that has No modern day equivalent
outside of fiddling with Game engines (which I hate for Filmmaking.)

Not having access to the tools I need on My OS Destroys my "Piece of mind"

Apple has become bigger than the mighty pseudo sovereign entity
Exxon mobile, by ignoring the Pro 3DCC hardware market.

IMHO waiting year after year for Apple to pull a “crazy Ivan”
and change course is a fools gambit.

#29

Virtually nothing you posted here contradicts anything I posted.

It’s down to a matter of preference with most machines and spot using older Windows machines for specific tasks. To each their own.

I also have an old Windows 7 tower running and old copy of Faceshift. Since Apple bought that software company and they are still using the software it would be great if it transitioned back to a pro app, but I’m not holding my breath. As far as your copy of Endorphin, I remember that app well and it was awesome in it’s time, however I’m pretty sure you could do all of that and more in Houdini, which runs like a top on OSX on the Mac Pro and iMac Pro mind you.

It’s all a matter of your perspective.

#30

Indeed ,and it would seem the the OP of this thread has already decided to join the rest of the pro CG world and bought a PC so all is well.

#31

Touche sweetheart. Do you feel better after getting that little dig? Really?

#32

I use Mac’s exclusively. I have made about 20 TV ads in the past 4 years. Made a butt load of cash and love the fact I don’t have to waste a single second of my life fixing driver problems. OS install screw ups. Windows complete lack of designer friendly features ( basic thumbnails images ) or even a cohesive UI but do I give a damn that other people use it. Nope.

You could have a 48 core quad 2080ti… Doen’t mean anything if you don’t have the work, skill or talent does it and isn’t going to beat a renderfarm is it?

Mac Vs PC is literally the most childish idiotic thing since people whose argue about which Mobile phone is better.

#33

When someone, such as a freelancer with a set budget, yes it does. I have also created mulitple TV ads, 3+ feature length movies and tonnes of online videos, apps, websites, and more recently, games - and up until 2 weeks ago all on Mac.

Having now switched, I realise that the question, PC vs Mac, for someone looking to switch is more important now then ever. Mac is losing its creative edge (unless you spend 12k plus on a Mac Pro) - but for someone like me who needs mobility, I get more power out of my new Windows Laptop than I can get out of a mid-range IMac Pro, and thats BEFORE Nvidia just annouced their studio partnership with major brands. 64gb ram, 8 core i9, RTX5000 16gb graphics in a laptop - lets see apple try that when they refuse to work with Nvidia and some other leading brands.

Also, I was scared of swapping OS - and for a week I hated it. Now, I quite like it. Your mention of basic thumbnail images is invalid. Windows has come a LOOOOONG way, and now its great - some features I prefer over mac , especially 3 finger swipe up gesture to view recently opened projects/ files - this is a real time saver. It even has 2 finger tap for right click - making the transition from Mac quick and easy.

A LOT of creators are jumping ship from mac. A LOT - its unfortunate but its how it is.

#34

So you didn’t get my point? No one should give a damn who uses what. But don’t think that any amount of kit will make you better or necessarily more productive. It’s reductive, boring and redundant these days.

#35

Quite Ironic… what is reductive is to assume
that everyone has the same creative objectives or even Hardware/software preferences,Financial resources or literal pipeline requirements therefore "its the artist not the tools"mythology is still sadly believed.

I agree that getting emotional ,over what others prefer ,is pointless &silly

However there are many factors that have made many dump the Mac OS as platform for 3DCC/CG that go beyond “giving a damn” about what others are using.

The OP of this thread sought opinions and weighed them against his personal requirements and personal financial resources and Dumped Apple for an Alienware 17M: 32gb ram, i9, RTX2080 8gb graphics, plenty of storage but most importantly, beautiful 4k 100% sRGB - important for content creation.

Many,many others in the 3DCC/CG/VFX Industry have made that decision for their own logistical,pipeline,practical reasons,
none of which can simply be dismissed as
“boring” or “redundant”.

#37

Nope. Again you are the one that started this stating that only windows users are professional. I proved a point that is not case. This follow up post was more constructive but still doesn’t excuse the original childish post. Won’t be replying again as I have a really complex scene build for a show on a Mac.