Temporary Changes to Gallery Acceptance

#21

I think the choice gallery’s great, though representative of the absolute best “EVER!” and not necessarily how good you have to be to get your first job.

Perhaps there needs to be an intermediate gallery?

So something like

gallery a - all submissions
gallery b - showing some good skill development and employment potential (lighting, modeling… anything really that shows promise)
gallery c - ooooooh preddy!

Perhaps “b” could be given a small comment on what element was the worthy part, so they don’t just think their composition skills are awesome when in fact it was the lighting (for example).

#22

Ultimately it’s up to the moderators, but I gotta say I kinda like the old system better.
As someone already said, purusing the gallery now just isn’t as enjoyable as before, because the quality of works is a lot lower. (I don’t want to point fingers, but this one really stood out for me).

The only thing I can suggest is to watch your web statistics closely… if the ‘Time Spent Viewing Page’ drops considerably, then I’d suggest reverting to the old system.

Just my 2 cents.

I visit the CGSociety gallery almost daily, and I’d hate to see it die :wink:

#23

Dear leigh,

I had highlighted my issue before to CEOs of the Ballistic media which thankfully had been resulted maybe in these discussions and in good action which i appreciate,

From one week or more my latest personal work had been declined to be submitt inside the 3dstill gallery, Kindly take a look at the project in the below link

http://bazooka67.cgsociety.org/gallery/

Take a look at the project and consider the quality and the work in it.

while saying that these work not meeting the standards of CG society 3d still gallery (which i found extremly strange )

you could find in the other hand that this work in the below link had been accepted before on the 3dstill gallery.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=132&t=974997

(knowing that this happened before the gallery submission changes you are highlighting)

SO its for sure appears that there is something wrong for sure ,

And even more works u could find in the 3Dstill gallery (previously) doesnt by anymeans reach to the quality to decline my works.

SO kindly take a deep consideration at this specific case as it appears for me that they didnt even look at the content of my submission.

SO finally my opinion is if they couldnt manage the large number of submssions to be really judged and considered fairly and with attention so i dont find anypoint of judging.

I like the concept of the quality control but if i still could find some works accepted in the gallery (as the prevoius link) that doesnt yet meet the basic quality(low quality or in progress) and find some works like my recent project declined so for sure its not a fulfilling system

Your kind action and consideration is highly appreciated

Best regards
Architect/senior 3d artist Karim mousa

#24

I would personally prefer to see some standard of quality, even in the main gallery. There are a few images that just seem very amateurish/unfinished, and they should really be in the WIP forum until they have at least some polish.

A great example of the junk I don’t want to see would be that image that was briefly in the 3D Finished Works gallery a couple of days ago, that people were complaining about due to its fundamental lack of aesthetic appeal, that was quickly removed. One of the replies was from someone who had been rejected, and his image, which he posted, was obviously much more deserving of being in the finished works gallery.

TLDR: let most submissions in, but weed out the sloppy/unfinished stuff.

#25

  • one or a few people deciding what’s good, is always a problem without a clear defined criteria, (technical details/facts?)
    To be a moderator does not mean that those people are professionally qualified to judge work. even despite of fame/popularity, recognition, the studio they work for, etc
    some mods have years, that’s not good either, as IMO the forum needs to be renewed from time to time, especially the less active mods

  • if a defined group of people decides what’s good, then the community itself won’t. I say this, because, forums, like many things on internet are not a science when we talk about whats good whats not. It’s more popularity, or subjective perception.
    (if people post bad works, is because the current system does not motivates the community itself to reject them.)
    Also, this means that people will complain because they think their works are good enough.
    It also means that many people will focus on “common popular (tiresome) ideas”

if there were a hierarchy in the galleries, people would feel challenged to post better works.
the only hierarchy is the cg choice gallery, which imo is full of not interesting works

  • its not the choise about ‘strict vs free’ the one that matters, I think this thread makes no sence, it does not prove anything… the real question is: how to make galleries better?

  • cgtalk is missing good web dev, no offense, but this forums is old outdated with many problems, that makes the process harder for the community (imo imo imo)

the galleries should be far more strict, but not subjectively, communities define whats interesting, not whats perfect or really good, or highly skilled, and in that sense, that’s what matter, in the end the galleries should be a reflect of the community and not of a group of people, the problem is what kind of forum this is? noobs/experts? technical /artistic, popular/selective… somebody would need to take decisions not about the galleries, but the forum itlsef

people should not worry soo much about all this, there are tons of way to promote your work…

#26

It’s a good thing that you try out new things to see how it goes, but personally I will not submit any work to the gallery before there are some more stricter rules in place.
I want to know when I have gotten better/good enough to actually make the gallery page.
But at least now we will some many different and interesting pieces.

I agree with spurcell that perhaps the line should be somewhere between the old one and “anything goes”

-thondal-

#27

I’m having way more fun looking at it now. :wink:

#28

I’d like things to continue as they were.

I’ve already been through the ‘comprehensive school education’ system, whereby everybody is compressed into the same flat line, regardless of ability.

If my work isn’t good enough, bounce it back to me - it’s the only way I’ll improve.

#29

Nice experiment…

I think I am in favour of the old system, but when rejecting, maybe you could add some standard replies in the return message (you can prolly automate this) “Needs more work in X area” , where x can be prefab answers like modelling / lighting / rendering / concept / artistic merit etc. Rejectees would know where to work on, look for, as its one of the catch-22’s : someone who lacks the skill, often can’t see what he/she isn’t doing well enough, otherwise he/she would do so…

#30

My opinion is that no-one should make statements about their own works, but the others should. Our eyes are very subjective and the moment we submit our works, most of us don’t see the flaws, which can be there. That’s why it’s a good idea to show it to your colleagues to criticize before submitting. Your work is good in technical aspect of 3d, but your foreground, middleground and backgrounds are not separated enough by lighting.

Maybe we could create a forum called “rejected works woes”, where people could complain how good their work is and wasn’t accepted.

#31

ugh

this one isn’t even made in a 3d package
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=132&t=979125

#32

Well i allways thought Cg Talk restrictions was something that made this site different from the rest, and better in terms of quality. Well i just might go to max now, make a teapot and render it straight in scanline and have my img submitted to the gallery just for fun. I bet some people might do this in other radical ways.

By allowing anything, you are becoming more vulgar, and we already seeing some very wierd things being posted like this one here http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=132&t=979726.

#33

That’s a good idea. We can consolidate all these threads in one section so that people know where to avoid.

#34

It’s definitely not pathetic or childish to try something new, but it’s quite a “public secret” that you’re quite happy with yourself in the way you’re dealing with the submissions and this whole site. I’m not alone in this, but probably the only one saying it out loud here.
It might come harsh on you and I understand that, but at least you should respect my honest opinion even though you consider it as impolite, arrogant and obnoxious.

Reading further in this topic I saw people even addressed CEO’s from Ballistic about how the show is being run here. By you, as you explained yourself.

So, nothing pathetic/childish about trying something new, but you can hardly call it a really serious experiment the way it is set up now.
After this experiment is done people will have 2 choices:
-Stick with the old system which people still have problems with.
-Stick with this new system, which is even worse.
Not really a choice, only a matter of choosing the least worse option if you’d ask me.

I have offered a couple of suggestions which you didn’t bother to reply to so I suppose you stopped reading somewhere.
I don’t blame you for doing that, if you did, but I’m afraid that’s a bit exemplary for this whole situation.

So don’t take next too personally, which you probably will, but my conclusion so far by reading the replies is that the judgement of submissions shouldn’t be done by a single person (like I suggested myself as well).
To get back with what I meant “exemplary”; You’re quite selective when it comes to reading and responding on critique (which you prefer to call accusations etc. etc.) and the same selectiveness creeps into your job as moderator of the galleries.
I suppose you’re going through tons of submissions each day and I think the load is perhaps too much to allow yourself for a really good and interested look at the submissions.

Perfect example is from “bazooka67” a couple of messages ago.
Definitely gallery worth material, but somehow it didn’t pass your personal preference somehow as well as he’s pretty sure you didn’t see his whole submission and I can’t really help thinking he’s right there.

It really all comes down to expanding the number of moderators for the galleries:

  1. they can share opinions on submissions so that final decision is more weighted and thus more “fair”.

  2. it could allow for little feedback with, for example, pre-fabricated replies like “misses central point of interest/focus” or “needs improvement on texturing/lighting/whatever”.
    Still better than nowadays vague reply one gets.

  3. groups of moderators can be made to split the work-load which allows for more time and thus better quality of judgement.

Cheers,
Martin

#35

I think the 3D still gallery should be open to everybody.
The CG choice gallery however should showcase the best of the best (based on vote or admin discretion).
Currently there is no where to load a finish work for everybody to see. The only place is the portfolio (which not everybody use or doesn’t let you comment) or the WIP forums (but that’s for WIP).
We need a place where finish work can be shown and where we can ask questions of post comments.

I understand we will see a lot more of lower quality works but we have to give a chance to beginners to show their finished works.

#36

Maybe we could create a forum called “rejected works woes”, where people could complain how good their work is and wasn’t accepted.

In all seriousness … with a more encouraging title, this could be a very helpful and informative forum.

The WIP forums are there for those at the blocking out stage of images who are asking for help from others.

The ‘Back to the Drawing Board’ (?) forum could be there for those who have submitted imagery, but it has been moderated and deemed ‘in need of more work’.

The forum would be there for community feedback (including feedback from the moderator, time permitting), and also for the OP to talk about their work, their goals, and aspirations.

A level of moderation might be appropriate to prevent things devolving into a bun fight.

This would allow for the CG choice gallery to remain as the gold standard, with the regular forums continuing to provide a gallery for professional, high quality work.

What do you think?

#37

I’m almost tempted to create an alternate account and submit all my old work :smiley:

#38

I stopped reading your post at this point because I refuse to enter into a long debate with someone who doesn’t know me from a bar of soap but presumes to know what I like, what I am happy with, and how I think. Newsflash: you don’t know me, or anything about me, so kindly keep your “public secrets” to yourself.

#39

I think you’re right. The forum could be located just below the 3d gallery one. I think it would solve the problem, and people could further improve their work, not feeling so terribly down. What’s more, it should be more interesting than WIP forums, which have 30 pages of a car modeling, whereas here you would have (almost) finished pieces.

#40

A couple of people have mentioned this now, and while it may seem like a decent solution, I’ve seen it implemented on some other websites and I’m not convinced that it has the right effect. For a start, it breeds quite a lot of bitterness; although I guess the same could be said about just the act of rejection itself. The main problem that I personally have with this system is that it draws attention to the rejection aspect and considering the fact that some artists take the rejection thing a bit personally, then dumping their work into a rejection forum may make them even unhappier.

I’m also not convinced that a tiered gallery system, which one or two people have mentioned, is an ideal solution either, as, based on what I’ve learned over the years from this site and how people respond to it, it would be seen as more divisive and elitist than the system we’ve had until now.

Personally I am mostly in favour of a system that runs by peer review (and by peers, I mean everyone), but we are still kicking around ideas in the mods forum for how best to accomplish this. I’d personally like to see everything being accepted into the galleries, along with a thread rating system which highlights noteworthy threads. I’m also keen to expand on the frontpage plugging system so that we can bring attention to more work than we currently do. But as I said, we are still discussing this amongst the mods to find the best solution.

And now my files have finished saving so I need to get back to work for now, but more will follow later.