Taron´s project on 3ds max??


#1

does any one know how to do this (or somenthing similar)in max?? http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=187770&highlight=taron (i think there is a video on that thread ) here is another link to zbrushcentral http://206.145.80.239/zbc/showthread.php?t=22300&highlight=neckling
just check out how the skin behaves over the tendons and adam´s apple. Idont know if there is a work around in max to use multiple displacements as he shows, or the maps thah he uses to animate the tendons…
any sugestions???


#2

i know is difficult, but im sure that some of you guys have a workaround :slight_smile:


#3

Blending multiple displacement maps can best be done with plugins like:
http://www.blur.com/Tech/zip/imageadd.zip
The really tricky thing he does is attaching those bitmaps to bones/dummys. To do this in max you may have to use a seperate mapping channel for each bitmap, then attach each UVW gizmo to a dummy using an expression controller of something.


#4

thanks gjpetch, would you mind to explain in more detail?? im fairly new to 3d so i miss some stuff, and this looks pretty advanced, but im really interested on learning this thanks


#5

It is kind of complex; I’d love to have a nice simple solution for this in Max, like the tools Taron describes in Messiah Studio.
The max user reference has much better descriptions and definitions than I can give you; but basically, each bitmap and each UV map modifier has a parameter called map channel. By defaul this is 1, so everything gets mapped the same way. However, it’s possible to use as many mapping channels as you need and thus to have different bitmaps maped onto the object in different ways. So by using multiple mapping channels you could have all the tendons and adams apple maps move around seperatly.
To bind the position of a UVW gizmo to a dummy/bone you could do this:
If you go into track view you can apply an expression controller to the position of a UVW gizmo, this way you control the position of the gizmo based on what you type into the expression. In this case the expression would be very simple, just make a variable for the XY&Z of the bone/dummy, then put those three variables into the XYZ of the gizmo.

Hey, suddenly I’m a know-it-all :), how did that happen?


#6

thank you very much man , im gonna try ti on!!!:thumbsup: i have to do some more research anyway , but when i have somentihn ill post it again!!
thanks again


#7

you should also use the new smooth plugin, so that your scene doesnt slow down when using a lot of displacements moving around in the viewport.


#8

which one are you refering too?? where can i find it?


#9

meshtools… i think… do a search here… big thread going on , its probably a few pages back her in the max forum


#10

what do you guys think about using a muscle system instead of displacement maps?? or would it be too complicated?


#11

lots better :smiley:

maybe the setup is more difficult , but its easyer to oversee what you are doing, also when animating you see what the muscles do, instad of bitmaps moving around and changing oposity.

i think Tarons solution will never get mainstream, caus than we will have good muscle systems in our 3d aps.

innovative what he did, but i doubt, that its really practical.


#12

thanks a lot ! ill try it both ways! by the way , if you know of some information about setting up such a system ( im really interested on that under skin movement ) let me know , because i know is pretty advanced so ill probably miss some stuff

thanks again


#13

for face animation the facial rig from eek , comes closest, its the same way how gollum was animated. get some info there… for you i hope your an advanced user, if not than just first go on animating with morph targets, and get allong from there… such things is a big step, and if its your first, than i would concider trying other things first, so you can understand the rest better later on.


#14

thanks man , ill check it out ill see if i can manage it. (i have done some morph targets before but anyway this is something new…we´ll see)


#15

I’m not so sure…
Gullum was pretty much animated with morph targets, I believe the rig your referring to is more of a bone based setup, animated with helper objects on spline paths.
I wouldn’t agree that Tarons technique isn’t practical; its actually incredibly quick and intuitive, and can give more detailed effects than muscle based systems. Also, a bone based system is dynamically calculating complex collisions, compared to Tarons system which is just blending in maps; so Tarons system may actually give a MORE accurate and quicker representation of whats going on to the user.
On the other hand, allot of big, high rez maps + displacement means renders will use allot of RAM.
I did a quick test recently in which I blended in maps based on morph targets and bone angles to create dynamic skin wrinkles; I found it to be a powerful and intuitive technique:


#16

it looks very nice!! would you mind to explain the process and the setup? maybe just a quick tut?


#17

I just used expression controllers to controll the blending of the wrinkle maps. Really simple expressions that use the angle of the neck bones and the morph targets as multipliers for the map levels. So, changing the morph for raised eybrows to 100 will also change the brow wrinkle map to full strength.
This can be done in a few different ways, I just use expressions because I find them pretty solid and quick.


#18

no it are morph target, i know that guy… its not based on bones or anything…
it works wih lots of wire parameters and morph targets.
you can save stuff you make as morh, and use later, and also combine everything.

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=20832&page=39&pp=15&highlight=facial+rig

thats the thread, you have the white helpers in the face, those drive the rest of all the attached wire parameters… and also it works like real muscles, the mouth influences the cheeks etc, all thought out. you dont actually use a muscle system but it works like one.

the shapes you make, you can directly animate and save as morph, you can load them up, and mix them together… and use X% of 1 and X% of 2. its really neat, but not so easy to setup;) but i think its what your searching for… its the best thing around. maybe this also gives you more freedome than a real muscle system, because a muscle system would define the shape in a neutral pose etc, because its underneath the skin and works with it, here the skin moves as muscles through the working of the rig.

good luck. i advice reading the whole thread, instead of asking stuff there right away, there are example files in there etc.


#19

oh yeah , i spent like two hour reading the whole thread, believeme!! but at first he said he was gonna release a tut on his rig , and at the end i was so tired and sleepy that i didnt know if i had lost some release or the tut , thats why i wrote that. Ialready have the example scenes, pretty amazing !!Lots of expressions , but i think i can do something about it. do some more research anyway .
thanks a lot


#20

tut aint out yet… will take some time still … kindah busy guy hehe… and hes porting it to maya etc.