Switch to PC?


#1

Hi, I’m seriously considering switching to PC after 20 years on Mac.
Physical render has become impossibly slow, especially if one uses a PBR workflow.
Pro Render is ok for still images but animation is out of question.
All other GPU-based renderers leverage CUDA.
I was still hopeful that Apple would eventually support Nvidia cards in their forthcoming Mac Pro but the recent fuss around the lack of drivers for Mojave and the absence of Egpu support for Nvidia cards hints at a rather bleak future as far as GPU rendering on Mac, at least in the short to mid term.
I know that Otoy is trying to port Octane to Metal but they still have a long way to go. I don’t even know if redshift has any plans…
Should I wait for this new Mac Pro or is the wait useless if my goal is to use GPU renderers like Octane/Redshift etc?


#2

I was a Mac OS user for 20 years in my previous career as professional
Graphic designer for print.
I struggled for a decade trying get into Character animation & VFX
Staying on the Mac platform.

My advice…Abandon ship!:wink:

Apple has become a luxury brand for affluent Smartphone consumers.
And bloody good for them, as their company typical closes out the market
here in New York with a value greater than the pseudo sovereign nation Exxon mobile

You should dispassionately invest in a platform that serves your creative objectives
and gives you as many options in every aspect of CG with reasonable hope for all of the future
options we are about to have available.
and that is not on the mac OS System/hardware.

Trust me when I got my win 7 PC about four years ago
I was like a kid in Disneyland for the first time
and truly regretted how much time I lost not learning windows based tools
I need to achieve my creative objectives.

Dont delay mate,
Join the rest of the 3DCC world.


#3

I’m still waiting on what that new MacPro will be. I’m not holding my breath though, knowing Apple the new box will be the size of a donut with everything soldered down. Apple’s way or the highway = windows.

That’s the worst case scenario I’m bracing for. I still have hope they come with something that can replace my 8 year old MacPro’s. I would really regret spending money on a PC rig then learning the new MacPro are totally awesome.

But I can wait, a bit longer. Question is can you? Or are you getting cornered where you are losing money because your equipment can’t keep up with the demand?


#4

At the moment, my feeling is that what Apple do with the new Mac Pro is utterly irrelevant if the Mac OS itself doesn’t allow you to run pro applications … or more precisely, pro applications that rely on GPU and Cuda… If Apple do ever release a new Mac Pro that can’t run pro apps it’ll be dead in the water. Someone recently pointed out a video from a guy from Red cameras pleading Apple to start supporting Nvidia as their 8k video compression/playback relies on it. I wonder if in the future we’ll see more a more apps taking advantage of GPU power and whether these apps will also rely on Nvidia/Cuda… If so, and if Apple wish to continue making computers for creative professionals, well…

I bought a brand new iMac Pro less than 6 months ago and the OS is currently no longer updatable if I want to continue working with GPU rendering… So it’s certainly left me asking whether my iMP’s days are already numbered… That said, another way to look at it is this… Today I’m able to connect two 1080 Tis (possibly even more according to this thread New Mac Mini plus Nvidia eGPU viable Workstation? ) to my iMP, which I think is a fairly respectable amount of rendering power for a single workstation. There’s no immediate need for me to upgrade to Mojave, so I can leave things exactly as they are for the next year or so and make a decision later …

Whilst I find it hard to believe that Apple will all of a sudden begin to support Nvidia/Cuda, I do believe that there is still a large enough group of people who feel strongly enough about sticking with the Mac platform AND working with their Nvidia GPU/Cuda apps that it’s possible some very smart people will manage to develop hacks and workarounds as they have been doing over at EGPU.io … Personally, if I can stick with the Mac then I will do. Not because I have anything personal against Windows, but after spending so many years on Mac, I think I would find the change very difficult, and I use my Mac for so much besides just 3D work and I don’t want to maintain two workstations …


#5

I’m looking, for sure. It’s a great time to be looking into the PC. The new Ryzen generation is coming in Q2 2019 (or so I hear), pressuring Intel to compete. CPU or GPU based, the future is bright for PCs.

U-Render’s Open-GL based Renderer is out, windows only. I might switch just to that with a big honking 2080TI driving a PC so I don’t have to sweat render times. I would run bootcamp and and external GPUs, but Apple stopped eGPUs from working on Apple hardware running windows. They are outright hostile to professionals sometimes.

I have no idea where to sell an iMac. I love this machine, it just will never do 3d how I want it to and it’s time I accept it. The only thing that may help is nVidia support coming soon, as external GPUs remove heat as a concern from the computer case.

I have heard something about some AMD exclusivity running out with Apple at the end of 2018, and that’s what Apple is waiting for to announce nVidia support. But I have the distinct feeling its just a fantasy on the part of Apple users.

With Apple it’s always “wait and see what X brings” and then X is late, causing Apple users to fall more and more behind.


#6

It’s hard to believe that Apple might be on the brink of terminating AMD’s exclusivity.
There is literally no sign pointing in that direction.
They don’t even bother with proper eGPU support for nvidia cards, and the recent incompatibility with Mojave proves that the level of cooperation between both firms is rather low.
I really don’t care about what the new Mac Pro will be all about. All I need is Nvidia support and from what I read above it seems quite unlikely in the near future.
Otherwise companies like Otoy wouldn’t be working on porting their renderers to Metal.
To me Apple’s roadmap is to leverage metal as the go to GPU platform and force developers to adopt their standard. That’s typical of them and this means that it will take at least another 2 years to get Octane Metal on par with Cuda.


#7

There is absolutely no reason to be loyal to a hardware or software brand, and absolutely no reason not to be using a modern computer instead of being locked into a closed, dead-end hardware configuration you cannot update. The lack of Ryzen options alone should be considered the death-gong for Apple’s defunct computer lines, if you’re doing CGI or content-creation. The industry simply outpaced them.


#8

Well said Mate

:grin:


#9

The sad thing is, with C4D’s lack of Linux support, and Apple going away as feasible platform, we are now going to be locked in on Windows. Long-term, that cannot be a good thing.


#10

I’m not advocating one side over the other at the moment, but this story sums it up, and you can sign a petition to (hopefully) get the situated rectified here.


#11

A mac user since starting with the 13" screen B&W “Macintosh” in 1988. Will always be a Mac user to some extent. I hate Windows and prefer MacOS.

But I just ordered a monster PC stuffed with three 2080tis so I can keep up with the rest of the team’s redshift production work. Its been over 5 years since theres been a reasonable high end macpro release, and even that was not an ideal 3d workstation. I’ll keep my eyes open for whatever the future holds for Apple, but I needed to make a choice for what will get the work done today.


#12

There’s a certain bizarreness to the fact that Apple is seemingly locked in to the poorer choice for professionals in both CPUs (Intel) and GPUs (AMD). If they instead put AMD CPUs in with Nvidia cards, they could absolutely clean house.


#13

In 1985 I purchased one of the first Macs. I was a Big Mac fan boy–went to Apple trade shows and saw Jobs do a few of his amazing keynotes. Owned a good number of Macs over the years. I was certainly a Mac fan boy.

Four years ago I decided to move towards GPU rendering (Octane) and built my first PC. A year later I built a second.

I still have a MacBook for some of my work but my 3d work is 100% Windows. I’m glad I switched…no reason to elaborate. The reasons are now obvious to anyone who is paying attention.

Welcome Joel to the “Dark Side.”


#14

When companies reach a certain size/ market value
they become immutable in their confidence that they know
better than the great unwashed masses

Apple has so much cash reserves that
they are very nearly a sovereign nation.

The mighty United States Department of justice demanded that Apple unlock
one single Iphone of a terrorist after his massacre in California.

Apple blythely said " sod off"
and the FBI scampered off and procured their own third party "hacker to perform the task.

That petition for NVIDIA driver support is the very definition of “an excercise in futility”


#15

Oh, I don’t think for one second it will get Apple to change its mind. But at least it signals that a lot of people are unhappy with the direction things are going. There are nearly 7,000 signatures on there – many of which could be potential 2019 Mac Pro buyers (or not, if Nvidia GPUs aren’t an option.)

The story also cites some high-profile Mac users unhappy with Apple’s stance. Signing a petition might be futile in the long run, but doing nothing feels even worse.

For what it’s worth, I’ll be voting with my wallet if the new Mac Pro isn’t a worthy successor to the ‘cheesegrater’ MP. I’ll switch to a PC for CG and just keep the Mac for daily mail, web and writing duties – plus maybe a bit of noodling/rendering. I’ve been a Mac fan forever, but like many, I’m running out of patience with Apple’s current inactivity, stubbornness and lack of vision.


#16

I believe I heard that Apple’s iphone revenues are in the trillions. I dont really think I need to say much more than that :slight_smile:

And icecaveman–thanks :slight_smile: Yeah, Im not crazy about it, worked on Windows as needed in a previous job and it was quite frustrating at times. Just little things you take for granted as a mac user that you need special software for or whatever. But Im going kicking and screaming into the future (really the present actually).


#17

While I completely understand professionals not trusting Apple on this one, it would make no sense at all for them to release another expensive, non-upgradable, AMD graphics limited “pro” machine after publicly admitting they screwed up the 2013 Mac Pro. They would be savaged in the press, nobody would buy them, and that would be that. The 2013 Mac Pro used up what remained of their professional customer loyalty. There’s a few people left waiting to see what happens with the 2019 Mac Pro, but if it’s not what it needs to be, even the die hard Mac fans will leave it for dead and buy PC’s. Even if Apple delivers, it’s going to take a long time for a lot of pros to trust them again, since they haven’t exactly had our backs over the last several years. My bet is that they will release a very expensive but powerful machine, with an Nvidia graphics option and/ or some new technology that sets the machine apart. Otherwise I just don’t see the point in them bothering.

As for switching to PC now, it’s the obvious best bet for Cinema 4D work if you need a new machine. If the 2019 Mac Pro turns out to be a beast, you can let them work the bugs out and switch back to Mac on the next upgrade cycle. If Apple blows it again, you haven’t wasted a year waiting on them.


#18

After 3 years mac I go back to windows. Too many hardware problems, too bad service on the Apple side.

Today I ordered my new computer. I’m looking forward to the performance of modern hardware. I will miss Final Cut and the Retina display.


#19

Apple have never once had the back of the professional 3D market, even though many of us have stuck with the platform and hardware, and used it successfully for 3D for decades. If it weren’t for the classic Mac Pro, and typically the 12 core option, i suspect most of us would have jumped ship many years ago. It’s testament to the build quality and flexibility that one Mac design had, that kept it in daily use for many of us, some 7-9 years after its release. This Mac Pro has now reached ‘Vintage’ status in the US, whilst for the rest of the world it’s classed as obsolete, so this really is the end of the road for these machines in terms of future OS support, even though I suspect some of us will still hold on and use them for as long as our frustrations can be tolerated!

That said, unless the new Mac Pro 2019 has ALL the flexibility of a modern PC, regardless of the design and build quality, I can’t imagine too many 3D pros will go for it compared to what I suspect will still be a significantly cheaper PC build. We could be amazed and shocked, but lets be honest, Apple has been lacking innovation, and still increasing their profit margins enormously for a few years now. I still love the Apple products I have and use, but I have absolutely no love or respect for the company they have become.


#20

Have you guys seen the new AMD card? Looks like a serious competitor to the 2070/80.
If only Octane/Redshift were ported to Metal I would not even consider jumping ships.
I watched Nick’s PC unboxing on GReyscale gorilla and couldn’t help but think that this was a wrong move: the noise, the heat issue…Then the disappointing cinebench score that forced him to look into the configuration settings…
I’m through with all that. i just want something plug and play.