stiff and soft in rigg ???

#1

Hi all!

I 've got another one for you :slight_smile:
uhm…one of the characters in this project that I’ve been working on is half man and half wood-man…to be exact…all the wrists in his body ( hand legs abdomen…) places like elbows and neck and…knee…those are the parts that have weight maps on them…and are actually clothes that move with the character following his directions…but…other part of the body…face…torso…forearms…and all the rest…is wooden.
therefor these are parts that shouldn’t move…and if so…they are supposed to move really in a limited way…or they shouldn’t bend in ANY way…
but…I was constructing this rigg for two days now…and usually…i have some good solutions…and stick by them…but for this one…I’m blank…i dunno how to construct it…because…if i rigg it in some normal way…then the legs or the wooden parts of the leg are bending and they should not…
so…if anyone can help me…it’s you all here :slight_smile:

thnk u for your patience and help :slight_smile:
tritochke

#2

have you ever looked at Puppetmaster?

This helps you cut up the model and the main sections would be form-keeping, and the bends would be at the joins.

Best,
Rick

#3

uhm…yap…puppet was my first guess…now that you’ve said it I watched the tutorials again…and.it looks like it is closest to the real solution…but I need clustered model…and…unfortunately…don’t have it…but…that is actually the easier part…I’ll probably get it…If I ask the other departments for it…

thnk u catizone :slight_smile:

#4

it slipped away :)…I was watching the tuts from J.C the part where he’s explaining the meta soft effect…and it got me thinking…that maybe this is an easier way opposed to PM…?
but…still…it’s not that easy…because…he was using this robotic hand…the hand was animated and the mesh performed awfully…but then he explained that the basic hand mesh is actually all cut out on smaller part that are totally invisible in messiah setup tab…so that’s why the joints bend the hand in a rubber like way…and not in the good way ( dunno why, that’s the problem for me…cause…he has one mesh called for example_ROBOThand and in that mesh he has like 50 different cut out small elements that makes the hand…but still it is one mesh ??? how ? )

i think that meta effectors may be the good solution…but…these little detail is something i just don’t get…

( sorry for crappy english :slight_smile:

#5

IF Puppetmaster is the “best” solution…I am not sure.

But what it does do is allow you to basically isolate main elements (or any number) of a mesh so that you will not have deformation there if you don’t want it.

Basically, you have you whole mesh. Then, you also cut that into separate sections. Puppetmaster allows you to animate the separate sections, but those translations are put to the whole mesh. And the parts are all hidden for render, so you get a whole mesh which is being animated by the “parts” of the other mesh. Thus the name.

Now,since you wanted to keep some parts absolutely…or relatively…firm, this might be an easy solution. Along with the sections, however, you can also add other effects to the parts of you want some subtle thing happening.

Puppetmaster was originally created (if I recall my history correctly) to help with keeping more solid parts of anatomy from being affected by bending bones. Now, bones are tremendously improved, and perhaps that’s why Puppetmaster isn’t used or thought of as much as before, but it’s a really powerful tool.

Best,
Rick

#6

PM or MEffectors…I’m a bit confused to be honest:)
but…I will keep lookin for the easiest solution…and hopefully will find it 'till the work deadline…thnk u very much for your help and advices :slight_smile:

and…of course if you in the meantime have some other advices or guidelines feel free to drop them here :slight_smile:

cheers m8 and thnx once again !

#7

MetaEffectors are probably more useful, since you can blend between the wood and flesh bits as smoothly or sharply as you like. I made a character once who was an origami man, and MEffectors worked great.

#8

…hi m8 ! and thnk u for your comment…:slight_smile:
uhm…ME are great…i can see it…trough the tutorials of J.C…but…this is the part that is really confusing…CUTTING the basic model on single meshes that are inside of the object…I’ve played about 10 tutorials from J.C concerning the PM and ME effects…and how to use them…and they are all great but in them he start’s with cutting of the model…in… ( if I recall correctly wings 3D )and…he does that perfectly easy…but…this is a bit problem for me…cause u see…I work in LW…and…the only way of cutting in here is with WEIGHT MAPS…and I already tryied that…but the results are far from good…because messiah just can’t load the weight maps from LW correctly…what messiah does is…imports the map generally…following the shape of and object…but it’s not the real map…at all…it’s just some weird substitute that don’t read any weight in messiah…it’s just hollow…and confusing…

If someone could show me how to cut the model in LIGHTW exactly like the J.C does in W3d through all his tuts…then I think this problem would be over…:frowning:
p.s.
I heard of some plugin for LW that is formed to cut the model on right cluster shapes for messiah…is it true ??? or…how can I buy it.?..or use it…

THNK U ALL! :slight_smile:

#9

To cut the model for use with puppetmaster you just select the polygons that are to form one part and then copy them to a new object (or layer maybe works too). Load all parts and the original object into messiah and use the puppetmaster effect.

For metaeffectors i think that you can delete rows of polgons in your model and isolate parts that way and then use the cut-up model with puppetmater.

#10

…hi m8 and thnk u for your advices !
uhm…actually…we’ve already tried that with layers…but the part that is fairly confusing for me…is that J.C…in tuts…( i presume you’ve watched them ) so…like I said…he was cutting it for PM…and during that cutting in wings 3d…he assigned some materials to that cut out elements…is it material…or is it in the form of LAYER…I’m not sure…some people told me that materials…and weight maps…and layers in this ‘’ cutting ’ business mean the same thing ( I’m actually quite blank on that…cause I don’t have big experience in any of this_just the rookie )
but…If I remember correctly the cutout model of mechHAND in his meta soft tutorial is broken on 20 pieces more or less…and…in messiah…( and THAT is the part I don’t get ) so…in messiah we only see one mesh called mechHAND…and no descendents…just one name…
so…that is THAT big issue here…for me.
I don’t see anywhere how he cut it…and then import in messiah in a form of ONE object…that is prepared and cutout on smaller individual elements…

If you can see that tut. please I would really appreciate your advice on this matter

thnk you Lillmagnus once again :slight_smile:
cheers!

#11

The idea is that you have one mesh. That mesh is the “whole” object mesh that will ultimately be distorted.

You also make, from that mesh, a set of sections, cut from that mesh…as “parts” if you will.

The parts are Puppetmastered animating, and that is translated to the whole mesh. You don’t render the PM sections, only the whole mesh.

Exactly how one cuts up a mesh into the needed parts can be specific to your modeling program. It’s been a LONG time since i used it, but I believe that the point order must still be maintained. There was also a plugin at one time that would reorder everything with the mesh to alleviate having to re-cut all the sections if point order was lost.

If you have Joe’s tutorial, I’d follow what he’s doing if you are using Wings. I used to sue Lightwave.

Best,
Rick

#12

got it know :)( at least i think i do )
…uhm…lightwave is actually really tricky with all of this…even Joe in PM tut. explains that cutting part on some other except LW is a bit easier 'cause the LW needs some kind of plugin…that was originally made for that ( plugin was created in LW or Messiah programers stuff…not sure actually)but…I’ve looked for it…and…just couldn’t find it…
but…generally…i do understand the hierarchy of the whole cut operations…and…I guess the switching from LW on W3d is easier and quicker solution…and after that only following his flow…
…
thnk u catizone and thnk u ALL for your amazing advices!
( I will leave this topic open…in case some thing goes wrong-hope it won’t :slight_smile:

cheers all !

#13

This should work. I know there used to be a plugin to split surfaces to layers, but I’m not sure if this is that one.

#14

Hi m8! and thank u for link…I visited the site…but…there is no plugin available…only script and :slight_smile: I’m not that skillful to play with them…I’ll check it some more…maybe I’ve missed something…

thnk u !
tritochke

#15

OH well you can add and run LScripts as buttons. You just copy the lscript to your plugins directory and re-scan in Modeler, and assign the script to a button by editing the menu layout.

You can do it yourself too, by selecting polygons in Modeler and cutting/pasting them to layers. The script just makes it easier.

But it’s really not necessary. All you have to do is make bones as normal, and a MetaEffector to replace the bones’ default weighting.

Here’s a sample scene. The stiff body of the rifle is being controlled by Skeleton_Bone_1, and the bendy nozzle is controlled by the nozzle_1…etc. bones.

In Setup mode, Effector_1 and _2 have their Field of Influence set to “Connected” in their Effector blocks. Effector_3 is set to “Finite” to blend the weighting smoothly along the nozzle.

Then Skeleton_Bone_1 has it’s Weight set to MetaEffector in it’s Bone block in Setup mode. The other bones also use MetaEffector, with “Invert Weights” checked. You can see on the screen how the white parts of the model are being controlled by Skeleton_Bone_1.

Skeleton_Bone_1 is locked, and parented to Gun_XForm, which you would use to animate the gun moving. In the real world this chunk of rig might be a leg, or the whole character’s body. The point is to show how to have stiff and flexy parts with one skeleton. Makes sense?

#16

Makes absolute sense…:slight_smile: THank you!..I’ve looked at your example…and that’s basically it…I do understand what your approach offers…and for that I’m extremely thankful :slight_smile:
Uhm…I’ve made my own example( actually…two of them )…and…I’ll post them here…so if you’re willing to look at some possible mistakes I’ve made…and…maybe this is the best way for me to explain the problem…:slight_smile:

thank you !
tritochke
p.s.

there are two MPJ’s_named FK and IK…just to show the ME influence on both of these styles…you’ll notice that the biceps and the forearm are wooden parts( and those are the STIFF elements of this character )…and…the elbow is cloth ( so…heh…not stiff )…:slight_smile:
rigg is simple and only test version…so I belive it’s correct…I’ve made some minor changes in the positioning of the bones…elbow part to be exact…and…that’s it…also…in the third MPJ…I’ve experimented with FK version…and…basicly…avoided the ME…and entirely relyed on the basic rigg…that is unfortunately only suitable for FK animation stlye…
( I hope this explanation’’ what i did ''part was not to tiresome…I’m only trying to be as precise as possible :slight_smile:

THNK you ! :wink:

#17

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