State of C4D Fluids


#1

So I was watching this video released last week for a new SoftImage plug-in emPolygonizer2

http://vimeo.com/groups/38302/videos/14233773

Looks pretty good. Not RealFlow good, of course. But not too shabby.

Not to get into a pissing match, but how does this plug-in compare to C4D’s liquid meshes and fluid plug-ins?

An earlier thread mentioned Thinking Particles, DPIT Effex, Turbulence, and PhyFluids.


#2

Looks a lot better than RealFlow to me.


#3

It’s definitely no where near Realflow in terms of fluid quality. (And I believe this video is more about the ability to mesh particles than simulate fluids.) But what blows me away is the ICE system and what users are doing with it. I’m no TD, but I’d love to spend some time with ICE.


#4

I wouldn’t say better than realflow for sure !
But for sure it’s an impressive piece …there are some really amazing things for Ice when it comes to deal with particles.
who knows with python we might be able to get some toys like that ?


#5

Nice video but the fluid stuff is fairly unimpressive. The motions decent but the surface generated doesnt look much better than our metaballs, and theyre ancient.


#6

SI’s old rename and resell trick… glad I got out…
Rainer


#7

Eric Mootz is one of best softimage coder from Saarbruecken Germany
but, I personally like emRPC and emFluid

“by the way, that’s something I forgot to mention: Helge Mathee is one of my autodesk-softimage favourite coder and programmer”


#8

re: helge mathee i think he also made some c4d plugs a long time ago anyone remember OHM.

re: that vid seems to use sph and this in one of remo plugs…there are also some remo flex elements or even some c4d clothilde type stuff…not sure about ripping and elasticity parts…it looks to be lots of different elements rolled into one vid…some of that stuff is certainly possible in remos plugs (xsph,phyfluids,flex)…however the question i guess is how disjointed are those xsi tools or are they all essentially working in combo since that makes them more useable than some of remos plugs for sure…that said its a area in the past where remo has been strong eg ditools where toolsets worked well in combo. unfortunately there isn’t a universal solver in remos plugs despite trying to work on a middle ground of linking plugs so they are more functional in combo and also developing overlaps to make them slightly easier to use…
re fluids…is a difficult one since there are a number of different options available to a c4d user either through again remo, samirs tools or jaschas are all impressive dev work…again the fluid systems depend on different approaches eg fluids grid based or something like sph particle mesh-free grid free…each method has distinct advantages and therefore have real difference in benefits when making you sims. in summary its a rather confusing vid to comment on since there are so many different functions highlighted most of which i would say are achievable to a degree. maybe it would be better to narrow it down a little to specifics…since if you want to do grid based fluids…done…3 plugs at least available…its all a bit tricky to comment on…i did my best… :deal: :slight_smile:


#9

Only C4D plugin that deals with liquid fluids I’ve seen so far is from the upcoming release of Dpit Effex 1.5. There is a thread in the forum with some of the early examples.
As far as the plugin you’ve shown in your first post, I would agree with o’neill in that visually it doesn’t look all that better than c4d’s metaballs.

Morph


#10

Thought that was a great reel, beautiful stuff. Not necessarily vfx/photoreal in terms of accurate liquid behavior, but quite stylish, interesting results. Would be good for mography work.


#11

yeah i’d have to agree with you there its a great watch lots going on in there.
but a bit difficult to compare on fluid basis when not that much of it is fluids really.


#12

re: that vid seems to use sph and this in one of remo plugs…there are also some remo flex elements or even some c4d clothilde type stuff…not sure about ripping and elasticity parts…it looks to be lots of different elements rolled into one vid…some of that stuff is certainly possible in remos plugs (xsph,phyfluids,flex)…however the question i guess is how disjointed are those xsi tools or are they all essentially working in combo since that makes them more useable than some of remos plugs for sure…that said its a area in the past where remo has been strong eg ditools where toolsets worked well in combo. unfortunately there isn’t a universal solver in remos plugs despite trying to work on a middle ground of linking plugs so they are more functional in combo and also developing overlaps to make them slightly easier to use…
re fluids…is a difficult one since there are a number of different options available to a c4d user either through again remo, samirs tools or jaschas are all impressive dev work…again the fluid systems depend on different approaches eg fluids grid based or something like sph particle mesh-free grid free…each method has distinct advantages and therefore have real difference in benefits when making you sims. in summary its a rather confusing vid to comment on since there are so many different functions highlighted most of which i would say are achievable to a degree. maybe it would be better to narrow it down a little to specifics…since if you want to do grid based fluids…done…3 plugs at least available…its all a bit tricky to comment on…i did my best…

Remotion Xsph will be closer Softimage’s SPH ICE-compound from T.Costa.
Own Remesher - IsoSurfacer (same SI’s emPolygonazer from Eric Mootz) is bad :)(but not so terrible), several shaders in alpha can to subtract useless pieces. Wants more controls at meshing…more interaction with procedurals/meshes :wink:
Of course we can to get mesh via c4d metaballs, xsph put under metaball and turn on obj.clonning. or write own mesher, Remo wrote about api/sdk fro futher development of tools in forum’s dev.section.
Emmiting system is wonderful for viscous liquids/substances(oils, honey products for commercials)…But i can’t get it to work with TP, how(cloning results as TP, i know)? Flingster, are you know?


#13

i don’t know much about tp and can’t remember off top of my head links…but i know remo asked awhile ago about linking to tp to xsph on his forum (2006!!!)…if there are things you’d like to see then i’d think he’d want to know really. :eek:


#14

Flingster, thanks. We, Jonah Tobias and i, left several requests to Remo SPH system at new forum. And i know, he is busy with all other his plugins…
(i really think to write polygonazer for tp after C.Smith’s presentation for Py4D at SG2010, i tried to to render point clouds via cgkit + several libs…it was horrible, lack of knowledge :)))


#15

Did C.Smith present any PY4D with fluid sim examples at the presentation?


#16

You have not seen it, have you?

My answer - No, work-flow with py4d. I expressed my desire to code a bit if will have free time.


#17

Just watched the presentation. Didn’t look at it before sorry.

Looks like another good tool to learn…


#18

Can anyone sum up?

I’m confused. From what I can see …

realflow - yes but too expensive for anything but a really significant ‘fluids’ project.

dpit and jawset/turbulance4D have working flame and smoke sims
without playing with either - turbulance4D seems more lifelike

dpit has effect 1.5 coming soon with fluid sims - single QT on website looks very promising tipping the balance the other way

remotion/phytools - sooo many different tools in development, great little snippets here and there, but I’m not sure if any of its complete enough to start using in a production environment?

R12 gets a fluid sim?

clarification please - anybody?


#19

No one can clarify your last question until R12 is officially released… even beta testers (cough) who already know the answer :wink:

As for the rest of them, sounds about right to me, but I’ve only really looked at RF and not tried the plugins yet. An important distinction though is that RF will do liquids and not just fluid (as in gas etc), afaik none of the C4D plugins currently available will do liquid.

One other option to consider is Blender fluids, it will do liquid. I used it on a job recently to make tea spill out of a cup that a character was carrying and it was a bit of a pig to work with. Got the job done though and the price was right :slight_smile: Do a search here for Blender Fluids in Cinema and you’ll find an ‘enhanced XRef’ object a member came up with to allow Blender fluids to be imported and rendered in Cinema, that’s what I used on that job.

Cheers,
Brian


#20

This is pure speculation on my part, but I wouldn’t be surprised, and I’ll tell you why – R11.5 laid the groundwork with MoDynamics. If they were able (read: “if they chose”) to bump up the workable particle/object count significantly and added some kind of auto-mesher or reworked the metaball simulator, you could do some very nice fluid sim stuff in there, just with those two things. Simulating actual fluids go a little further than that, but boatloads of particles + automatic meshing in a reasonable, easy to use, fast manner = fluid sims good enough for most people.

I’ve used RF4 on a few jobs, and I’ve used Blender fluids (and did a video tutorial for them on cg.tutsplus.com a while back). There are some nice options on the horizon, but right now, you pretty much still have to do complex fluids outside of Cinema, IMHO.

I’d be thrilled beyond belief if Maxon put a focus on particles/fluids/smoke/fire/dynamics (it’s all fairly closely related) but honestly, I’d be really surprised if they did because I just don’t think they’re going that direction or targeting that market. But I have hope because of what’s in 11.5… but I’m not holding my breath.