STARWARS Episode2 - What a bad Movie...

#109

Are you saying that the acting is bad in SW EP 1 and 2 cause they have to adhere to the bad acting in EP 4, 5 and 6?
What kind of logic is that?
I liked the explaination from Dragonfollower on GL’s purposely making the technology better cause it was during the Republic’s golden age with better resources, etc. Thanks for that clear and logical point.
I still wish they had buttons and knobs like googlo points out cause the shiny coats of chrome may not be available to the rebels but they still should have similar controls (tech, flat panels,etc) that is in EP 1 and 2.
And YES, they do have to adhere to the laws of their own universe. What’s the point of making a SW universe if Spiderman can just jump in it and save the day?
As for Titantic making money cause it was good…
Yes, I thought it was brilliant what JC did to direct that movie. He made a boring story of a ship sinking into one that had interesting plot/subplot twists and turns.
BUT…
it made the money it did cause lots and lots of teenage girls when to watch it over and over again. Not cause it was a superior movie to every other movie that came out (macqdor’s argument that money=good movie).

When it come to this argument of “is Ep1 and 2 good movies?”, everyone has their own opinions as to their likes and dislikes of these movies.
I can respect that.
But critically/professionally speaking, these movies were not that good.
Or else they would have won best picture at the oscars.
EP 1 and 2 wasn’t and won’t even be nominated where as LOTR has and will.
That’s cause the standards by which we judge a movie calling it a great piece of film work is based on many things (money is the least factor! Look at all the movies that won best picture).
Acting, storywriting, directing, etc.
A film must be great is all these areas to even be nominated.
For those that don’t know, film is the only form of art that is truly 100% american.
I hope you see the difference between films and movies.
Zoolander = movie (entertainment).
Godfather = film (art).
See?
SW being 100% american? Why are half the actors speaking with a british accent? Wasn’t the desert scenes shot in Tunisia?
In conclusion to this nonsense I would like to say that I saw the people’s choice awards jsut last night and LOTR:FOTR won best dramatic motion picture and favorite motion picture. These are the 2 highest honors of any film during these awards. LOTR got nominated for best picture at the oscars (film professionals) and won best picture for people’s choice (fans).
SW EP 1 or 2 didn’t even get NOMINATED!
Result:
SW EP 1 and 2 = movie
LOTR = film

Macqdor, why do you keep bringing up the whole “matrix, LOTR, 3 film over forever” thing?
What does that have to do with a movie being good?
The whole point of this forum was that SW EP 2 is NOT a good movie and we are comparing it to movies like LOTR to show why.
Bringing up points that have nothing to do with the the definition of a great film (length of battles scenes, money it made, only 3 movies made, etc.) just goes to show that you are grasping for straws. If you liked it, good. But we are making/showing valid points why it just doesn’t measure up.
For those that didn’t like it (like me): I didn’t like it cause I keep comparing it to EP 4,5,6. If I didn’t do that, I would just find EP 1 and 2 more entertaining. But it’s hard not to compare cause they are prequels to the same story.
And just cause someone quotes from a movie doesn’t mean that it’s a good MOVIE. It just means that the movie has catchy phrases: “I’ll be back”, “Yeahhh, baby!”, “Say hello to my little friend!”.

#110

I’m not graspng at straws I’m one of the few people that can watch SW and then watch LOTR and not try to draw up comparisons. Just because LOTR has been nominated for numerious awards doesnt take one iota away from Star Wars. There 2 great movies from 2 great directors that use 2 differant styles of format. GL is keeping in step with his original theme, and to try to surpass the original has been a Hollywood taboo almost forever. I take Esp 1 and Esp 2 on there merits, watch them back 2 back and then watch Esp 4,5 and 6 and u can almost see what GL is basically doing.

When LOTR achieves greatness thats good for the sc/fi genre and makes Hollywood respect that genre of films,i hope they win and win BIG.

If your go into a SW film thinking your going to get a LOTR movie then your setting yourself to be dissappointed. If u think any new SW can top SW or Empire Strikes Back your setting yourself up for the same dissappointment. Esp 1 and 2 are good reinforcements to those movies.

Plus we already know the ending, so there’s no suspence like it was when Luke found out who is Dad is. We know who his Dad is, and we know how it ended.

Take them for there merits and not as LOTR extensions. I love both films

Matrix who ???

whats a Matrix ???

#111

Chances are you, the reader, have already seen Attack Of The Clones. If not, then I strongly advise you to get to your nearest cinema showing this almighty film and watch it. If you hated The Phantom Menace, you will love this. If you liked The Phantom Menace, you will explode with joy. George Lucas strikes all the right notes here and delivers what he promised. The simple fact is Attack Of The Clones is a brilliant piece of filmmaking, a technical marvel and a damn good Star Wars movie.

I consider myself a fan of the series, and I rank The Empire Strikes Back as the best of the saga so far, then A New Hope with Return Of The Jedi and The Phantom Menace sort of tied. I really love all of the films (even Menace, comments here please!) and can’t understand why anybody wouldn’t. I couldn’t place Attack Of The Clones into this list accurately just yet because I’ve only seen it twice. I can confidently say, though, that it is a lot, lot better than Jedi and Menace, and after two viewings I am tempted to say it only lags behind Empire. The story is quite complex, but not complicated. The film sports a lot of action and never slows down once that famous opening crawl is finished. An unknown assassin is trying to off Senator Amidala (Portman) and the film literally starts with a bang. She is told to take refuge on her home planet of Naboo and is given a bodyguard in the form of Anakin Skywalker (Christensen), still a Padawan under Obi-Wan Kenobi’s (McGregor) lead. The rest of the story I will leave unspoiled. The first major action sequence comes in the form of a chase through Coruscant and it hands down beats the pod race in Episode One on both levels of excitement and visuals. In terms of action, you don’t have to wait long between each set piece. Also, the action drives the story forward rather than being tacked on just for the sake of it.

The humour and wit that was strangely lacking from Episode One is just right in Attack Of The Clones. Ewan McGregor gets most of the laughs and would have been the star of the show if it weren’t for the pure genius of Yoda (Frank Oz). Now completely CG, Yoda comes to life in ways we never thought possible and he really does show us why he is the master. Mace Windu (Jackson) is thankfully given a much bigger part and he too shows us just why he has got so high in the Jedi Council. Anakin is now played by Hayden Christensen and he handles the role well getting the right mix between frustrated teenager, Jedi hero and evil mass murderer. The performances are much better all round than in the last instalment and everyone feels more relaxed. Ian McDiarmid also gives a great performance as Palpatine and his few scenes are among the most important in the entire film.

If there was one criticism, it’s that the dialogue is a little ropey at times. Only a very few lines are guilty of this, though. Most of these are banter during the love story scenes with Anakin and Padme. Natalie Portman seems to have relaxed the most and even get in on the massive battle sequence at the end. That’s all that is wrong with the film; a few dodgy lines that take up only a few seconds. On the other hand some of the dialogue is quite powerful, especially a confession speech by Anakin to Padme that strikes unease into the audience. The very tone of Attack Of The Clones is a hell of a lot darker than The Phantom Menace. Infact, I would say that this is the darkest out of all the films, but that will change when Episode Three is released. If I wanted to be extra critical, it’s that the film is too short. There is so much information and plot that is covered, time becomes lost. This is actually the longest episode yet, and still it could have been longer. I wouldn’t have complained if this, and every other Star Wars film, was four hours long.

Everyone will probably know that this is the first movie to be filmed entirely on digital cameras. This means that the picture is a lot better, but it helps the people at ILM to work their magic quicker than normal giving us the best special effects ever unleashed. The backgrounds, cities and landscapes impress the most, as does the final battle sequence. Creatures are now brought to life without ever looking like a computer image. Sure, you know its CGI, but that’s only because you know the limits of makeup and animatronics.

There are some great new characters introduced in this episode, with the standout being one Jango Fett (Morrison), father of famed Boba Fett (Daniel Logan). Boba is just a kid in this film, but Jango is a fully armed badass bounty hunter. While his role is quite important in the story, he is sadly relegated to Darth Maul status as being underused. Christopher Lee manages to add even more class to the ever-increasing list of bad guys. He plays Count Dooku, a former Jedi who left the order and is now creating opposition to the republic. He gets some great lines and has the bottle to challenge Yoda.

As ever, John Williams delivers a magnificent score that could quite possibly be the best yet. The new love theme is brilliant, and just about every other Star Wars relevant theme makes an appearance. George Lucas should also be given a big round of applause as he has massively improved his directing skills. I would have said someone else directed this episode because it’s just such a vast improvement over the last. It just goes to show that big old George really was rusty after his sixteen year break with The Phantom Menace.

Attack Of The Clones delivers everything that both Star Wars fans and general moviegoers could want. There is a carefully thought about story, a romance, plenty of humour, cool villains and even cooler good guys. There is plenty of lightsabre action and the last act is just solid, adrenaline filled action that lives up to the title of the film. Quite simply, this isn’t just going to be the film to beat this summer, but rather the film to be beat this year. I can honestly say that this could be the best film of the year. - Lewis Carmichael

#112

Uh…okay.:rolleyes:

#113

any reason you resurrected this thread to speak to yourself?

talk about whine.

#114

STAR WARS-bashing seems to have become fashionable since 1999, which is
telling because up until THE PHANTOM MENACE was released that year, STAR WARS had been riding high on a wave of nostalgia after having been dormant since the mid-1980s.

The relatively lukewarm (no pun intended, honest) public response to THE
PHANTOM MENACE and ATTACK OF THE CLONES might be an example of the
STAR WARS franchise suffering from the consequences of its own success
during the late 1970s and early 1980s - the creation of unrealistic and unmeetable expectations resulting from the nostalgia of a generation that has
become considerably more cynical and sophisticated since EPISODES IV-VI were released during 1977-1983.

To understand why many people don’t think EPISODES I and II live up to EPISODES IV-VI, despite their (in my opinion) being equally good movies, you
have to look at the historical context in which these movies were released.
When STAR WARS: EPISODE IV (A NEW HOPE) was released in 1977, it was
truly a revolutionary moment in the way films were made and marketed. Quite
simply, before STAR WARS, there had never been a film (or a filmgoing experience) quite like it. The most sophisticated science-fiction
cinematography up to that point had been Stanley Kubrick’s 2001: A SPACE
ODYSSEY (1969), and while that remains an impressive benchmark in its own
right, it didn’t wow people in 1969 the way the STAR WARS wowed people in
1977. STAR WARS was so far ahead of the game in terms of SFX and sci-fi movie concept in 1977 that there wasn’t even anyone in the same ballpark (although the rest of Hollywood would catch up quickly, with Steven Spielberg’s CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE 3RD KIND in 1978 and E.T. four years after that). This largely remained true through 1980 and 1983, when THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK (EPISODE V) and RETURN OF THE JEDI (EPISODE VI) were released. STAR WARS captured the imagination of many people between the ages of 5 and 30 during the period from 1977 - 1983, especially those closer to 5 than to 30. There was nothing quite like it.

Fast-forward two decades. It’s the late 1990s/early 2000s. That generation of
children and young adults who’d loved STAR WARS during the late 1970s/early
1980s are nearly twenty years older (and more sophisticated), and have high
expectations for the prequels. After all, the STAR WARS movies were so magical when they were younger, so it’s reasonable to expect that the prequels would be magical all over again, right?

WRONG.

Filmmaking has come a long way since the original STAR WARS TRILOGY was
made. In the years since, we’ve had SUPERMAN, E.T., GHOSTBUSTERS, BATMAN, PREDATOR, ALIENS, the TERMINATOR movies, JURASSIC PARK, THE FIFTH ELEMENT, MEN IN BLACK, THE MATRIX, MINORITY REPORT . . . you name it. What made STAR WARS cutting edge during the late 1970s and early 1980s has been improved upon a hundred times over since those days. George Lucas has upgraded the SFX for EPISODES I & II to reflect those developments (indeed, one of the reasons he waited so long to follow up the original STAR WARS series was because he was developing the filmmaking technology to make the newer films possible), but to stay true to the flavor of the original movies, he couldn’t stray too far from the old concepts. A generation (the generation that came of age in the late 1980s and 1990s, who had experienced STAR WARS only as video fare until EPISODE I’s release) that has grown up on THE TERMINATOR, MEN IN BLACK and THE MATRIX is definitely going to find STAR WARS quaint: it’s a relic of an earlier, less sophisticated time.

As for the old-school STAR WARS fans who complain that EPISODES I and II aren’t as good as EPISODES IV-VI, I believe that many of them are looking at
the older STAR WARS movies through the rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia. I recently rewatched the old STAR WARS movies, and while I still enjoy them, I
must admit that they are dated . . . not just in terms of SFX, but in overall
concept. Upon further reflection, I’ve found that EPISODES IV-VI are about on
the same level as movies as EPISODES I and II. In other words, the STAR
WARS movies are as good as they’ve ever been, if you look at the objectively and not inflate the value of the original trilogy and thus, unfairly dismiss the value of the newer movies. The generation that grew up on the original STAR WARS trilogy has grown more sophisticated and yes, more cynical since the time of 1977-1983. They were children and very young adults when the first STAR WARS trilogy was released, and their virgin minds were ready to impressed by what was then the novel experience of a STAR WARS movie. The bottom line, however, is that no matter how wonderful the original STAR WARS movies were, they were just movies. Nostalgia has made these older fans expect the new STAR WARS movies to be the cinematographic version of the Second Coming. When the new STAR WARS movies are released and appear to be what they’ve always been (just movies, albeit very entertaining and imaginative movies), they feel disappointed.

I’ve rambled for a bit here, but the bottom line is this: STAR WARS today is as
good as it’s always been, so long as you don’t have an unreasonable expectation that the newer movies can make you a kid again. All the flaws that people charge EPISODE I and II with having were there in EPISODES IV-VI as well; nostalgia just blinds them to those flaws. If you watch all five completed STAR WARS movies in a row, you’ll notice a consistency to their strengths and weaknesses.

theforce.net

#115

Opinion

#116

Saying that that´s an extremelly biased opinion would be an understatement. :rolleyes:

If AOTC is a"brilliant piece of filmmaking", I wonder how that scale of values would rate REALLY “brilliant pieces of filmmaking”.

So, the only thing wrong are “a very few ropey lines of dialogue that take only a few seconds”, eh?

I wonder how the excruciatingly painfull bidimentional cardboard cut-out acting got past THAT review unscathed. :slight_smile:

Or the constant In-Your-Face “Look, Ma, this is CG too!” approach present twelve in every two frames.

Or the really awfull scenne transitions, the obvious plasticity of the whole experience, the really reh-tahded 2 years old humour like the torturing C-3PO gags, the “plot” my downstairs neighbour´s 12 years old could think of in his way to the school bus or… or… or…

You wanna know what´s THE sole interesting spot in this whole plainwreck?
I tell you what´s THE sole interesting spot in this whole plainwreck:
the scenne when baby Bobba grabs the helmet of his daddy.

It last only two frames at best but It´s the ONLY moment where you can spot some sort of emotion in the whole experience.

And that was probably the director of photography´s idea. :rolleyes:

#117

any reason you resurrected this thread to speak to yourself?

talk about whine.

Didn’t you start a thread on why ppl like it, go post there :slight_smile: I am not subscribed to that one.

#118

Although there is some flat acting…‘Attack of the Clones’ was a vast improvement over ‘Phantom Menace’.
It’s my personal favourite for the beginning shot of the sentorial Craft - it looks just like the main baddie from ‘19XX - The War Against Destiny’.
It also sparked my lust for making my own films!
I would rather watch Ep2 than the original films…um, although I’m not sure about ‘Empire Strikes Back’! That was my personal favourite before Ep2…

#119

You know there´s more to movies than eyecandy, don´t you?

That´s why we call them “movies” instead of “commercials”.

#120

Some folks are talking as if the original SW films were masterpieces. I don’t think they were very good. And they weren’t even Sci-Fi films, they were westerns with different costumes. Poor westerns.

That’s why the new ones are so vacuous and incoherent : the originals never had enough mileage to be stretched so thin.

Lucas has lost the plot and there was never much plot to lose in the first place.

#121

Just FYI:
Check out today’s (Jan 16) issue of USA Today’s Life section.
Title: Fantasy Wars
“‘Rings’ trilogy is outdueling ‘Star Wars’ as lord of the epics”
Some interesting points.
They show the main characters side by side with their counterparts from the other movie:
Viggo Mortensen - Harrison Ford (2 men who does not want to embrace their destiny but they do later to help the cause)
Liv Tyler - Carrie Fisher (elf ears on ears and hair buns on ears)
Christopher Lee - Christopher Lee (yeah, he’s so bad a** that he can be in both trilogies - LOL!)
Elijah Wood - Hayden Christensen (both trying to resist turning to the dark ways)

You can get USA Today at any news stand.

#122

I haven’t read quite every post on this thread but I add a couple of opinions:

  1. the tech doesn’t look the same - natural Han solos gun was real old gun with some plastics added and darth vaders console was a box with 3 leds. So it is understandable that it looks more advanced now. Wire frame animation was high tech in 70’s but no more…

  2. The love scenes were horrifying - absolutely

  3. I have it when everything has to be explained and no thinking is left to the viewer. EP I was much worse in this though with nice logic for jedi powers etc. There was no single surprise in EP I and most of the things were said several times.

  4. and then to the thing that annoys me most. Why the star wars universe is like ours but not quite. Apart from the romance the most annoying things were the straight translations from our worls.

  • I felt sick seeing the Senator (of the whole system) packing her Samsonite. How Star Wars is that?
  • the libarary doesn’t have bookshelves with books but lights that remind us books
  • the 50’s rock n roll cafe. Comoon how exotic and “a galaxy far far away” is that?

The strong point in 70’s of the SW was that it showed a wholy new world with its rules. Now they have our world but except that busses and cars fly, some bartender isn’t fat ugly man but fat ugly alien.
I am not sure if my point is getting through but there was no exotics in those things.

I think that there is some missconcept in the whole film world that people are not able to think and that they want to feel familiar with everything. That doesn’t leave too much left.

for sure still Lucas is pulling too many ropes. I think he must be good at something but his problem seems to be that he thinks that he is great at everything. I suppose EP I teached him something (it was such a bad film in so many ways)

And finally:

EP II had number of great designs and eye candy, it rolled on much better than epI. I just feel that it was made too much into high school concept.

And yes the acting sucked in the old ones (Luke: “Man, I’ll never get out of this place”, was one of the most ridiculous comments) But there was atmosphere. The darth vader is in my opinion still not easily macthed in authority.

heikki

#123

Y’know, I’m going to get publicly flogged for saying this, but I’ve liked each of the Star Wars prequels.

The thing that made me not like them was critical and jaded people constantly tearing the movies apart and exposing their flaws.

#124

So, basically, you´re blaming other people for teaching you why a bad movie was bad?

#125

Uhh…no. I’m perfectly aware of the movie’s faults. I went into the movie knowing full well what they would be. What I said is that I’m sick of hearing about them. I’ve studied writing and story structure (including Campbell’s Hero’s Journey) since I was a kid and I know a “bad story” when I see one. And let me tell you this, NONE of the Star Wars movies have had GREAT stories. Empire came close. But the point is that it’s popular to put down Star Wars and any who might have any sort of liking toward it. It’s funny how many people state they hate the movies just so they can take the popular stance in the argument. I’m simply tired of hearing about all of the movie’s faults. I realize everyone is free to express their opinion though…so I just figured I’d express mine.

#126

Originally posted by dragonfollower
Uhh…no. I’m perfectly aware of the movie’s faults. I went into the movie knowing full well what they would be. What I said is that I’m sick of hearing about them.

And yet your reading a topic entitled … what a bad movie and repeat repling here because?

I think in the literary world they call this a non sequitur.

#127

My question is this. How do people who hate SW or say its a bad movie know its a bad movie unless they in fact went to see it.

Movies I know that are bad I dont dare go see I know I wont like.

Second: I’m willing to bet those that disliked AOTC, some how by accident go see Esp III in 2005. Huh ?

this I bet:)

:beer:

#128

I’ve studied writing and story structure (including Campbell’s Hero’s Journey) since I was a kid and I know a “bad story” when I see one. And let me tell you this, NONE of the Star Wars movies have had GREAT stories. Empire came close.

I think Campbell would disagree with you - he himself used Star Wars as an example of a great story, using his monomyth theory… :shrug: