sorry but bones will be the end of me


#1

im sorry for this thread but i need some serious help. I cannot get bones down right. ive read like 5 tutorials but i still cant get it. can someone give me a link to a video or something where someone describes it.


#2

Hi,

try this Character Rigging

And Froggyplat Rigging, this one is really cool, a few hours video tutorials all about rigging. You have to register before download, but its free.

good luck, Robert


#3

www.joejustice.org

There is a skelegon rig in there that you can drag/stretch the LW inventory metanurb torso to fit. Find the “convert skelegons” button, and you should be able to get some fair results.

Joe goes into a lot of detail, which you may not be ready for. Just play first. 1 in 10 jobs is rigging. Apparently some guys really do get work at Pixar with animated box(es) shapes.

Stuff like rigging eyes can be found at newtek.com, but try the CGTalk Search function for a list of tutorials and the better courseware from gurus like Todd Grimes and Splinegod.

At presetcentral.com. you’ll find a BVH Scene that shows non-bones animation, as well as some great modelling and texturing.


#4

Tell us where is your problem happening ?

Skelegons ?
Bones ?
IK ?


#5

well cool topic as I’m trying to learn the rigging and animating too, and nothing is working as I wich it would.

I followed some tutorials on IK for the legs but my character allways starts acting like a uncontroleable puppin when you test the IK (legs in neck and stuff)

wozz


#6

If you could explain what kind of projects you’ve tried already and what settings you’ve used… maybe even a zipped file that shows what’s not working for you (without your mesh if you’ve created your own)… it’s hard to see where things are going wrong for you.

I would recommend just to start by trying to apply bones to an extremely simple object for a start… say a tube with enough polys at the joint to make it bend at a simple elbow or knee.

Have patience and experiment with small things first so that you gain an understanding of what each little thing does first. It’s not intuitive, even with a tutorial, to rig a complex character on your first try.

I can say, without a doubt though, that Froggyplats tutorials can get you going very well toward creating a very usable character. Don’t miss them!

Good luck and keep us posted.


#7

well my major problem is i cant get there to be a “main” bone that moves all the other bones and object. i also cant get the arms or legs to bend. do i need to add points at the joint??? and i dont get the skelegons either. if i add them in modeler can i switch them to bones in layout. and also how do i set limitations on each bone. those are my major problems. im gonna try to use soem of the tutorials you all gave me though thanks and if you can help more please do so.


#8

Bones can be pretty confusing when you start out. But definitely give the froggplant tutorials a go. It takes a bit of dedication to follow along with all the videos, but his step-by-step instructions are really clear and you’ll know what you’re doing in no time.


#9

Ah this is exactly the subject I’m having trouble with at the moment.
I’m trying to get the arms to raise above the head properly using IK. Every time I lift the arm goal up to shoulder height and beyond the elbows raise too and the hand ends up pointing outwards once the goal is raised right up. Anyone have a good solution to fixng this or do I have to use keyframes?

Thanks


#10

Originally posted by wereuare
well my major problem is i cant get there to be a “main” bone that moves all the other bones and object. i also cant get the arms or legs to bend. do i need to add points at the joint??? and i dont get the skelegons either. if i add them in modeler can i switch them to bones in layout. and also how do i set limitations on each bone. those are my major problems. im gonna try to use soem of the tutorials you all gave me though thanks and if you can help more please do so.

Well, usually you draw skelegons in Modeler, and then convert them in Layout using Add/bones/Convert Skelegons.

Your “main” bones problem seems to be related to a Parent / Children hyerarchy things. Would be a bit long to explain, though it’s detailled in the manual.

Yes, every joint should include more subdivs to allow the bending.

At this point, you should post a pic, and really look at some tuts.

Here’s a good one for Skelegon Drawing :
http://www.simplylightwave.com/movie_pages/tutorial.mhtml?tut_id=508


#11

Originally posted by Sycada
[B]Ah this is exactly the subject I’m having trouble with at the moment.
I’m trying to get the arms to raise above the head properly using IK. Every time I lift the arm goal up to shoulder height and beyond the elbows raise too and the hand ends up pointing outwards once the goal is raised right up. Anyone have a good solution to fixng this or do I have to use keyframes?

Thanks [/B]

The shoulder is a hard area. Keep in mind that when rising your arm Up above the head, your colar bone moves also.
This means, you have to create the colar bone.
Also, When trying to simulate the shoulder area, I use 2 bones in the shoulder, to make it bend softly, so that it’s no too squashed whe rising.
The other things I do is that my colar bone and my 2 tiny shoulder bones are Goaling the “Null Hand Goal” but with high Pitch shiftnes values ( that make them “resist” to goaling ).
As you can see these are for IK arms solutions, very personnal, and might not be the best way to do it (I don’t know what’s the best way…).
I would also add that IK chains are working well with 2 bones chain, that means you have to split them using "Unaffected by IK of descendant ".


#12

i think i get the jist of it now after watchin a few of the tut. you guys gave me (much thanks:beer: ) but now im having problems with the arm geting small at the joint when i bend it 90’ . can i fix that in modeler.


#13

in bone properties, you have a “joint compensation” %, this might help a bit.
Other solution exist like adding extra bone in between (that you could scale when bending).
Or a far more elegant solution would be Smartskin :
http://www.animationsnippets.com/plugins/smartskin/index.html


#14

Originally posted by Sycada
[B]Ah this is exactly the subject I’m having trouble with at the moment.
I’m trying to get the arms to raise above the head properly using IK. Every time I lift the arm goal up to shoulder height and beyond the elbows raise too and the hand ends up pointing outwards once the goal is raised right up. Anyone have a good solution to fixng this or do I have to use keyframes?

Thanks [/B]

You can probably animate faster by using a bit of FK there instead of spending hours to try and get IK to do what you think it should do. There are just too many things a shoulder can do that you cannot do with IK.
Its best to think of IK as a quick way to get you into the ball park. You still need to rely on FK to do things.
As facial mentioned, to get good shoulder deformations you need to remember that the deltoid muscles will left the arm to about parallel with the ground. After that the whole shoulder girdle (scapula and collarbone) kick in to assist.
You would need to set rotational limits on your upperarm bone so that it doesnt rotate past the parallel to the ground point and also have the collar bone rigged so that it doesnt start rotating until the upperarm bone reaches that parallel point.
You would also need to worry about joint stiffness so that some joints bend before other joints etc etc.
You would also probably need to throw in some expressions to do other things and IMO its just not worth it. By the time you had something setup and working semi reliably another animator would already be done. :slight_smile:
I think the best thing to shoot for with a rig is poseability and stability instead of automation.
Use IK to get the rough animation blocked out and then fine tune it using FK. I usually tend to avoid IK on the upper body in general unless hands need to lock to something like a surface of some kind. This is a general rule of thumb for me and it really depends on the situation.
I also tend to use small bones to keep my joint volume rather then use endomorphs. I can see the results immediately and I can adjust it directly. :slight_smile:


#15

SplineGod, did you try Smartskin ?
I only tried the tutorial sample, and the combination of “Rotate Skelegon” + “Smartskin” seems very efficient.
Was wondering what’s your opinion.


#16

Thankyou for all of the helpful info. I’ve been doing this for a little while now but there’s still so much to learn so this is all gold to me :applause:
I did wonder whether FK would be the better choice for the upper body and the tutorial rig I tried left me with the same problem with the arms that I had before.
I guess that getting the hand to twist so that the palm faces inwards when the arm is risen would be more to do with a smooth mesh and gradual bone banking throughout the arm than an ik rig right?
Thanks again and if I’m allowed to post what I get done (dunno if the people I’m working with will allow me to) then I’ll try to show you guys. This is the most helpful forum I’ve ever visited :beer:


#17

After reading this thread (because it pertains to my situation exactly) I tried to register to get the vids but no go. And I can’t see anywhere on the site 3d-Palace to report my problem to.

Does anyone know the administrator(s) there?
Thanks.


#18

Lifting arms above the head is supposed to be one of the “acid tests” of rigging, is it not? That, and crossing the arms over the chest, I think.

By the way, use “world coordinate” in Layout.

The other day I posted a suggestion to do a bouncing ball after the Preston Blair style, and then realized I hadn’t gotten a result I was happy with yet?! I had to use effectors to get close to the effect I was after.


#19

Actually a more acidic test would be to have the character be able to touch the top of its head and touch the opposite shoulder with little distortion. :slight_smile:


#20

Originally posted by SplineGod
You can probably animate faster by using a bit of FK there instead of spending hours to try and get IK to do what you think it should do. There are just too many things a shoulder can do that you cannot do with IK.
<snip>
You would also probably need to throw in some expressions to do other things and IMO its just not worth it. By the time you had something setup and working semi reliably another animator would already be done. :slight_smile:

Actually, implementing IK for the arms takes about 2 minutes, and animating is significantly faster, only having 2 major controls and one minor control for IK instead of 4-6 bones to rotate…

I certainly haven’t found anything that FK arms can do that IK arms can’t… but I can’t say the opposite… How do you constrain the hands to an object/place with FK? a heap of work, keys on every frame, and still a chance of wobbliness. With IK it’s there, done for you, no work at all :slight_smile: