(TL;DR version in the end, but I’d really appreciate if you read the whole thing)
I’ve been registered to CG Society for a while now, but only today I decided it was time to sweeten my practically inexistent skills, so I’ll cut right to the chase:
I’ve always dreamed of being a very skilled artist. I know, I have to practice, I have to learn how to see, how to interpret things, etc… all that pep talk veterans give newbies like me. Thing is, I’ve heard quite enough of this talk but no one ever answered me exatcly what I wanted, which is “How and where do I start?”. What I am humbly asking from you guys here is some help on where to get started on improving my drawing skills. Which courses do you recommend taking first? In which order? How many hours of practice should I consider taking, every day? Basically, I would like somebody to assemble a collection of courses for me, from very-beginning to advanced, so I can search the web out there and buy the right course for the right purpose, following the right learning curve. Here are some things you should consider first, before you guys try and help me:
Consider I know ZERO percent about drawing (it’s not actually true, I have some nice notions, but I’d love to start from scratch and I really don’t mind, so I can maybe fix some bad habits I know I have);
The amount of money I should invest is not important, I am willing to spend as much as it is needed to become a real artist, and on any place (Gnomon, Lynda.com, Digital Tutors, etc.);
I have an Intuos graphics tablet, so digital painting courses/tutorials are not a problem;
I’d prefer it to be courses that I can buy/find online, as I don’t have much time between college and work to enroll myself on a regular institution, not to mention the fact that I learn better on my own time, following my own pace.
I’d also prefer courses that cut right to the subject at hand, without spending 2 hours of the course telling stories of how drawing became a thing 30.000 years B.C., I frankly heard it all already and this is the major factor that kills my vibe when I try to engage myself in these processes.
I know, I am coming off as a demanding little b*tch, but it’s not that and I really hope you guys understand me. I’m but a desperate guy, who wants some guidance before I go spending money on the wrong courses and lose a lot of time in the process.
TL;DR version: I want to learn how to draw properly, from scratch, following a correct order of courses (very beginning to advanced), money isn’t a problem, but location or means of learning is (I prefer online or DVD). Please, I really need help on this.
Thank you so, so much!
I know this probably isn’t what you want to hear, but if you’re looking for tuition purely in drawing, then really the most important thing you need to be doing is practising, not watching videos! Of course, there is the classic literature, like Drawing On The Right Side Of The Brain, along with the usual suspects in the line of anatomy books, but there’s no getting around the simple fact that the best way to improve your drawing is to just keep doing it. Preferably drawing from life, as this is how you learn to interpret perspective and shapes.
I actually have no recommendations of videos, simply because I’ve not watched any myself, and therefore wouldn’t know what to suggest. I learned drawing the old fashioned way - by doing life drawing classes in college. Are you sure an evening drawing class is out of the question for you? In most cities you’ll find informal drawing sessions that are cheap to enter (usually just covering the cost of any models and paper/pencils supplied), and these can be a great way to improve your skills.
Again, I know this isn’t what you wanted to hear when you posted this, but if anyone asked me advice on how to learn drawing, this is what I’d suggest. Perhaps someone will have some videos they can recommend, which you can check out, but this is the best advice I can offer myself.
Yes, I really appreciate your good intentions, really! But what I really needed was some guidance. I mean, I know I must practice, that goes without saying, but the thing is: where exactly should I start? Every time I try to start drawing again, I pick a subject (Human anatomy, for example), then I get to practicing it for weeks, only to find out I didn’t learn anything, my lines are still all crooked, my drawings are all disproportionate and then I finally hit the wall that says “you missed some steps”. But I just don’t know what steps these are. Should I start with shading? Or maybe free hand lines? Or even digital painting? This, I don’t know. It’s like I stumble upon a marathon course and I know I must run, but I don’t know which side it is going, so I will not be able to follow it correctly and, eventually, give up
-To be honest, I am willing to try any technique. I love drawing, I just don’t know how to do it properly. So I’d say I’ve tried both techniques, but also like both equally. But if I have to pick between them, I’d say freestyle and quick.
I really love drawing robots and machinery, but wouldn’t want to limit my knowledge to this, so I’m taking anything (human anatomy, animal anatomy, landscapes, creatures, etc…)
Firstly thanks for responding, and updating your situation specifically. I was actually in the process of logging off but caught your post in time. However I’m dead on my feet, brain is practically in shut-down after a 9hr code session and its 2:27 AM local UTC very early morning.
So I must apologise and post my reply later today if that’s OK with you?. Simply because fair warning I’m going to draft a detailed post in reply and in regard to common courtesy I want to at least be fully in control of most of my cognitive senses when doing so
But before I log off in brief, some personal background. I’m a classically trained 2D traditional artist painter/portraitist with some years professional self-employed experience together with more years than I care to remember working in traditional mixed/dry media, combined with base-relief timber carving/sculpture plus assorted other minor fine art sub-sets, since 1975 aged 14yrs or thereabouts, all prior to transitioning across to CGI in approx: 2004 or so.
Anyways I look forward to catching up as mentioned later today.
Whenever I read about people who are new to art and ask many questions like this, it always sounds to me like they lack confidence and such questions will do nothing but hold you back. While books, tutorials, classes and advice will help you along the way, the core of what you need to do is just draw. It doesn’t matter if its pretty or not, just keep doing it. You will begin to develop an understanding of proportions and perspective.
You mentioned that you don’t have much time in between classes and such but to really become a good artist, it takes time. Lots of it. If you can only devote an hour or so a day to practicing then it will take much longer than a few weeks to see noticeable improvement.
You asked for a place to start and I would recommend learning traditional art techniques before anything else. Figure drawing, perspective, anatomy and color theory to start. Simply take a local figure drawing class. As leigh pointed out, the classes are generally cheap. You’ll learn a lot from drawing from a live figure and from other artists who are there with you.
Learning won’t make you a better artist but it will teach you the tools and techniques that you must practice often in order to become a better artist. So for now, draw draw draw.
Don’t set up road blocks for yourself by waiting for answers to questions. Just do it.
I agree 100% with the post above. Don’t create excuses for not just getting out there and drawing. It doesn’t matter if your lines are wonky or your drawing looks strange - every artist has a few thousand bad drawings in them that need to come out before the good stuff starts coming. That’s how practice works. You just have to keep at it, and don’t let the unsatisfying results of your early efforts affect your confidence.
Books, videos and tuition can come later. In the meantime, just get a sketchbook and some pencils and draw, draw, draw. Remember, Leonardo Da Vinci didn’t have a series of videos to learn from!
I understand all of it you are saying, I really do. It just looks like you guys are missing the point here:
-Yes, I have been practicing like a slave, for the last 12 weeks (and yes, the weeks are being counted, so that is how desperate and determined I am) at least 2 hours a day, which extend to 4 hours on a Saturday and 4 more hours on a Sunday (I am sorry, that’s all I have, I can’t simply drop college or work for drawing).
-No, my drawings aren’t getting any better. In fact, I keep making the same mistakes and seem to never correct them. I make side notes, my table is full of post-its and notes about the mistakes I have to watch out for, but for as much as I follow them, they never seem to be corrected. I try the same figures, over and over again, and they do not improve at all. If anything, they sometimes look worse than they looked before. There is this drawing of a male character I tried 4 weeks ago, and then tried improving on him for other 2 weeks that followed, with no success at all (I even took a picture of it, I’ll post it here once I get home, so you can really understand what’s going on).
-What you guys don’t get is a simple matter of logic: how can I build a building when I have the materials, but have absolutely no idea on how and where to start? In the case of the building, I can’t simply build and build and build and hope to improve, I know, but I can do it with drawing, right? Right! But the thing is it’s not because it’s drawing that it is simpler than building things. Every learning process has a starting point, and even Da Vinci had some mentoring at some point, he didn’t do everything by himself, given the time he lived and the struggles he had. It would be foolish to assume he never EVER had any single help, even for a brief moment. Somebody, someday, taught him how to look at things, how to interpret them, how to absorb the forms and shapes. He may have been a genius, but he had help paving his way to being one, I am absolutely sure about that.
-About the courses around the city or not having time: I live in Brazil. Even things that claim to be free here, are not actually free. I live in the largest city of Brazil (São Paulo) and for me to move from point A to point B, would take at least 2 hours by car, or 1 and a half by subway. That is considering that the best courses or even the free ones are located at least 10 miles away from me, and there is almost 0 chance I won’t get stuck in traffic, which would double it. I’ve googled some places closer to me, but there simply are those with ridiculous class hours (from 7 am to 11 am, being that I have to be at work at 8 am) and ridiculous prices (the “drawing - fundamentals” course is about R$ 3200,00, which is around US$ 1260,00). I can collect that amount of money, in a snap, but I simply cannot drop work, that’s a fact.
Guys, I don’t want to sound rude, and I apologize in advance if this does sound rude for you (but it was never my intention, let’s be clear at that), but the amount of time and effort you applied here telling me the same thing that every other artist has told me, you could have invested in coming to me and saying “Hey, you wanna improve your drawing? Why don’t you simply start taking an X course first, and build your way up to Y by practicing?”, X and Y being the areas of drawing I should focus on. It is that simple. It’s highly illogical that in a group of artists, not a single one can recommend me a starting point instead of coming here and saying the exact same thing I’ve been hearing, lifelong. Come on, this is all I want. Drop the lecturing, help me by guiding me to a starting point. It can’t be so simple as just drawing circles and squares, 24 hours a day. There simply must be some hints and tips to memorize, to learn. And once again, I had no intention in being rude here, so please, don’t understand this as me being rude. Thanks again.
Although I’m in agreement with the above posts to an extent, I however have a differing point of view as to an optimum sequence in tailoring an effective learning route for you ie: where to START in reference to your initial query and HOW to implement what you will subsequently learn, which I will address in a moment.
But first I just would like to, as briefly as I’m able to answer the points raised in the OP:
Yes it is difficult when frustrated to articulate your needs to a wider audience, then have to sift through a varied range of views voluntary offered, well intentioned it must be said, but if the answer to your particular dilemma is not forthcoming only increases a sense of hopelessness.
Consider I know ZERO percent about drawing (it’s not actually true, I have some nice notions, but I’d love to start from scratch and I really don’t mind, so I can maybe fix some bad habits I know I have);
It may surprise you to learn that regardless of aptitude and/or skill level whether beginner/intermediate/advanced, have this problem universally.
The amount of money I should invest is not important, I am willing to spend as much as it is needed to become a real artist, and on any place (Gnomon, Lynda.com, Digital Tutors, etc.);
I have just the “ticket” that may prove extremely helpful in this respect, as I’ve alluded too above will become apparent in a moment.
I have an Intuos graphics tablet, so digital painting courses/tutorials are not a problem;
Excellent, since the commencement of my own journey into the digital art realm, this peripheral has proven its worth exceedingly IMHO.
I’d prefer it to be courses that I can buy/find online, as I don’t have much time between college and work to enroll myself on a regular institution, not to mention the fact that I learn better on my own time, following my own pace.
I’d also prefer courses that cut right to the subject at hand, without spending 2 hours of the course telling stories of how drawing became a thing 30.000 years B.C., I frankly heard it all already and this is the major factor that kills my vibe when I try to engage myself in these processes.
I know, I am coming off as a demanding little b*tch, but it’s not that and I really hope you guys understand me. I’m but a desperate guy, who wants some guidance before I go spending money
on the wrong courses and lose a lot of time in the process.
TL;DR version: I want to learn how to draw properly, from scratch, following a correct order of courses (very beginning to advanced), money isn’t a problem, but location or means of learning is (I prefer online or DVD). Please, I really need help on this.
Yup, I have a solution as I’d mentioned, point #3
Now that said, my thoughts and possible avenues in mitigating your creative conundrum.
LIFE DRAWING:
When artists especially those who’ve amassed a quota of experience, developed over a number of years or indeed decades irrespective of discipline, medium and/or genre. At times when offering advice essentially in relation to your specific context ie: BEGINNER we are…how should I say, well there’s no other way to be subtle “guilty” in stating amidst our commentary “…also join a life drawing class” or something similar along those lines, and for the sake of clarity I don’t in anyway shape or form exclude myself in committing this “offence”.
To be quite frank is incorrect advice to give to an artist at the beginnings of their career. From my understanding you have currently minimal drawing/sketching level in aptitude, if you have difficulty in executing a drawing in 2D, how for mercy’s sake are you then expected to interpret or execute in 3D ie LIFE model either clothed or heaven’s forefend NUDE which I will state here and now impact quite significantly your mental acuity, let alone psychological balance.
So I can only attribute that piece of advice to forgetfulness too whom we are addressing our remarks, also I might add the Fine Art foundational knowledge learned at Uni has become somewhat ingrained, therefore blurted unintentionally by rote when answering these types of enquiries from less experienced artists. Basically using an analogy like - throwing the keys at an unlicensed driver without any experience in operating a motor vehicle and saying “here drive”.
DRAWING/SKETCHING PATHWAY:
Now here is a possible course of action, from personal experience in self-teaching an drawing skillset:
A.Copy your favourite subject matter [hence my first reply]. You’d mentioned mechs and mechanical equipment, so choose an appropriate image along with media that you feel most comfortable drawing with, either graphic table or paper and pencil. Then copy the image with the intent in capturing as close as possible in minut’est detail as best you can.
TIP:
Trace the outline then freehand the applicable detail of said image. After you’ve satisfied with the result, try drawing the entire subject freehand without tracing being attentive in capturing with precision every detail ie: facsimile of the original.
Once you happy with in your honest opinion the final result, ask someone you trust to offer a critique.
TIP:
Don’t tell him/her its your work, make up some story eg: “another friend draw it”…etc,etc, to get an honest/unbiased opinion, also I might add the original image so they have something too compare with.
This teaches primarily observation. [attention to detail]
B. Next Anatomy/Figurative studies either books or online resources, checkout these links from the CGT “Art Techniques and Theories” Sub-Forum
I’m not able to recommend relevant DVD’s due to not having used them and my extensive library with art textbook publications built up over the decades are far too advanced to recommend, besides most of the volumes are now out of print. Anyways Pace yourself, study as much as you can absorb and/or understand, its fairly cerebrally intensive so remind yourself in taking regular breaks in order not to “burn out” which is an ever present concern artists face typically. Remembering Whilst doing so keep DRAWING, so tailor a study schedule and try too stick to it.
C. Next is progression onward to Still Life sketches, as you’re comfortable with freestyle/quick [expressive/spontaneity] drawing technique this is where you can exercise this attribute. The subject matter is can be anything inanimate eg: from the archetypical bowl of fruit too a eating implement ie: knife/fork/spoon again what captures your attention. As per the above stages only when you think you’re ready to move on to the life drawing stage do so.
D. Lastly Life Drawing This stage is where the previous “preparatory” phases culminate and hopefully bear fruit.
TIP
Entering into sketching live people is intimidating at the best of times [if that exists] so to prepare before enrolling in an informal as leigh mention class, practice using a friend or family member [hopefully clothed] to build confidence prior to doing it for real…
That’s it for now, in actual fact here’s a relevant thread that describes in more detail this very pathway I’d used all those years ago, written by Robert Chang aka: “Lunatique” the Art Techniques and Theories forum mod:
…here’s why, I suggest this particular workshop BTW I myself will enrol once funds become available, preferably soon rather later. During my time surfing the Net over the past 20+ years I can categorically confirm that nothing else offered at present elsewhere online approaches nor exceeds the level of insightful, unique tuition you will receive just read the thread in its entirety.
So I hope this is not too much of a text wall of info for you to take in, also you’re quite welcome if you so wish too, if need be further clarification regarding to my comments, PM me.
Cheers
SALUTARY NOTE:
…leigh, Jesse, I’m hoping you both realise the Offending text was leaning very heavily towards a facetious turn of phrase, rather than an explicit offence it seems to imply, in order too forestall offended huffing-n-puffing upon my head via your good selves…
Wow… I am amazed. It gives me shivers, really. THIS is exactly what I’d call a very helpful response. I cannot fathom how relieved I am to finally getting someone to understand my needs. I will start digging in on those right away and, if it’s not much to ask, I’d like to exchange experiences with you. I understand you have your things to do and your own life, so I don’t expect immediate answers, but just the fact that I can have someone look at my progress will help me a whole lot, if you can, of course. Thank you so much, really! It’s been years searching for someone who would open up and help me, not only say that I “have to practice to become better”. I am sorry, but I am a very logical person, and I know practice makes perfect, but without any starting point, practice becomes waste. You, sir (or ma’am?), are the greatest help I’ve ever found. And I will be forever grateful. You guys may find it a bit of an overreaction, but only those who’ve lived almost 25 years of frustration on something they wanted as a dream will understand the big step this is…
I know your intention isn’t to come off as rude, but your tone isn’t great. I’m 35 years old - I learned to draw long before the internet came along, just like millions of people before me. Nobody sat and told me “here, do this and then do that”; I learned to draw by constantly drawing. It really is that simple. Repeatedly disregarding the advice to sit and draw makes it look like you think there’s some kind of magical shortcut that we’re withholding from you, when there isn’t. The reason you’ve been hearing “lifelong”, as you say, to just sit and draw is because that’s how you learn to draw. If you’re going to get irritated with this advice and accuse people of lecturing you, then I’m going to be totally honest and say that it looks like you have an attitude problem, and that’s what’s preventing you, more than anything, from progressing. If you’re going to keep making excuses about why you can’t draw, then perhaps you should find something else to do with your time.
I truly wasn’t rude, and apologized in advance. It’s just not in my nature to be rude to people, I was taught like this since I was a kid, it didn’t take practice like drawing takes, for example. But still, it seemed like you didn’t even pay attention to what I wrote, so how can you qualify as good advisor? I specifically pointed out that I have been trying to draw. It is one of the first things I’ve been saying since the opening of this thread. Is it too hard to understand that not everybody is the same? That not everybody is the “Oh-so-bright-and-mighty” drawing genius that you or others apparently are? It may have been easier for you, it doesn’t (at absolutely any point) mean it should be easy for me or that the “sit down, shut up and draw” experience you had is going to work for me. My attitude is doing very fine, I said (and not only once) that I didn’t mean to be rude. Still, I apologize once again if I picked your nerve, which was never my intention. But if you faced it as an aggressive statement on my part, maybe I am not the one whose attitude has a problem. Sacboi’s advices are working wonders for me, so far. I feel that I can finally understand the “whys and hows” of drawing, because the material he pointed me to is actually helpful. He understood what I needed, he thought outside of the box and said “Yeah, there actually ARE people out there who struggle to learn, in their own different ways” and helped me. But hey, why not just tell me off and say I should find something else to do with my time, amirite? I don’t say your advice is not useful. Au contraire, my friend. It REALLY is useful. But the problem is you (still) didn’t realize I said, at least twice, that yes, I have been practicing and following the advice of sitting and drawing. The real deal is that it does not, it ABSOLUTELY does NOT work for me. I know for a fact, because, well, nobody knows myself better than I do. Start from the point that we have 7 billion people on Earth and not a single one of them (not even twins) are exactly the same as the next one. From there, go to more enclosed cultures or groups of people, and realize that every person has their perks. You’re 35 years old, you learned only by practicing. It worked wonders. That is amazingly great, for you. I am 25, I learn by absorbing external knowledge, by being taught by those who know the subject at hand and that is my perk. That is terribly awful for me, since, apparently, most artists don’t have the teaching approach necessary to help the likes of me. So I can only feel happy for you. You achieved your dream by working the way you could. Kudos. As for myself? Well, I am different from you, a completely different person. Why should you then consider that everything that works for you will work for me? Sacboi’s advice is great, as I said. Alas, I am absolutely sure that, at some point, something inside this collection of thoughts and guides won’t work for me, therefore I will have to find a workaround. But I am also sure I am off to a great start, since there are things in there that I’ve never thought of before and, for me, are working wonders, and should I reach that point of “oh sh*t, this doesn’t work for me”, I will know where to branch out from there and start looking for solutions. Once again, and for the last time, I didn’t mean to offend or to be rude. However, it is good to sometimes stop and think about the fact that you deal with different people, at different places, on different levels, at different times.
Jack Kirby in an interview said he never believed you should learn how to draw.He said simply he just drew and figured out proportions and perspective.
Frank Frazzetta drew so much as a kid that he would end up drawing on rolls of toilet paper until there was nothing left.
It’s only after you drawn so much can you then understand the information that video tutorials and books are trying to show you.Until you put the hours in first,you will never be able to grasp those books and videos.A friend of mine says he just reads drawing books and picks up the techniques just by reading the instructions.Another artist in the cg industry advised me once,“if you want to learn how to ski,you dont read a bunch of books on skiing,you just ski”…
