So you wanna be an animator huh?

#41

Maybe this needs a new thread… but could the discussion be expanded to, ‘So you wanna be a cg artist?’ Or, more specifically, branch into areas of how broad this industry might be? Or, getting work in freelance?

I think often people think of landing the big job at ILM or Dreamworks, but I’ve always been curious how much work outside of this realm there is. I would figure it would be quite a lot.

There are the obvious things, like work for print, such as magazines, books, etc. There is architectural work, or visualization for court cases. Pre-viz for product development and title work for TV and commercials. The list probably goes on and on.

I’ve enjoyed working as part of an industrial design team in the past, doing pre-viz of product for architecture and mechanical equipment. I also worked briefly for an ad firm, doing primarily product pre-viz for retail settings, and a bit of architectural as well.

I’m curious what tips folks have for starting a small firm in this way, or getting into the smaller shops that cater to this market. Personally, I’m headed other directions in my career… but still might like to do a bit of 3D on the side… at least enough to support the costs of my cg habit.

-Steve

#42

I’m fine with the idea of expanding the questions to something beyond animation. My expertise is in the entertainment industry and film, but I’m still pretty familiar with print and broadcast design fields. Did that for years too. For those things I can’t answer, I’m fine with others chiming in to help.

#43

Cool… thanks Brian.

I don’t have a particular question right at the moment, but more wanted to bring up the idea. I kind of look at working at ILM a bit like being a rock star. There are all sorts of musicians in the world, some trying to be a star, some not… but only a certain number of folks will really end up doing that. But, that doesn’t mean there isn’t a LOT of work for musicians, even if most of the press is focused on the stars.

I’d guess that a majority of the EI licenses are in use by folks doing all this other type of work. It would be cool if folks who do that kind of work would be willing to share some tips as well about that aspect of the 3D industry.

I have always worked more internally where I was an employee or partner in a bigger project, so I don’t even have a clue what I’d charge if I were freelance. How would I price projects… by the project, or by the hour? I’d probably contact smaller architectural firms, law firms, product design and ad firms, and see if they would want to partner with projects if the do not already have internal folks who do these things.

Right now, I’m just too busy to even think much more about it. Maybe in about a year after I’m done with school, I’ll try to start some side work in this way. But, I think such a discussion would benefit a lot of the EI users, or users looking into EI.

Anyone want to share tips?

One question to relate it back to the current discussion… Would being a freelancer for a while (considering a freelancer needs to be more well rounded than specialized) make it harder to break into places like ILM? I suppose one would really have to pick a particular strength out and develop a reel based on it. (I’m not at all headed this way… just more of a ‘what if’ question.)

-Steve

#44

Hi Steve,

I started out as an industrial designer too. In “The Before Time”, in “The Long, Long Ago”, in an age we called “The Late Twentieth Century” I worked at a consulatancy for about five years doing product design but then the direction of the company changed to doing more industrial illustration and animation using Alias Studio and Power Animator (remember those programs?) running on two SGI Indigo 2 Extremes. And I fell I love with 3D modeling.

Then something fantastic happened – Macs and PCs got more powerful and a lot more affordable. And the 3D software that ran on them did too. I decided to go back to design school and freelance. I bought a G3, EIAS and Rhino running under Virtual PC and was able to crank out more quality work with that, in a much shorter time, than using the SGIs and Alias in the office. My freelancing ramped up and I got to work on lots of cool projects. For six years this was my main bread and butter. Because I took on clients in different fields (design firms, ad agencies, manufacturers and multimedia groups) I branched out doing Flash and interactive QuickTime. As I did, I forgot how much I enjoyed 3D modeling. Now, I’m trying to focus just on that. As Brian mentioned earlier in this thread, I’ve hit a plateau. There’s only so far you can go on your own as a freelancer (at least for me).

Freelancing has its joys, no doubt. But it can also hold you back in some very important ways. Working on my own, I spent more time trying to get work, writing proposals and negotiating contracts than I did doing what I loved – 3D modeling. Life is short. If you can spend your time doing what you love around other talented people, helping each other reach that next level, well. . . .that’s what I’m searching for now.

That said, you can make some serious money as a freelancer. 3D for print is one of the most unrecognized yet potentially the most profitable avenue for any CG freelancer. Also, 3D animations for tradeshows are getting to be more and more common place. There’s lots of room for talent to thrive. For pricing you might want to check the Graphic Artists’ Guild Pricing and Ethical Guidelines book. It’s mainly geared toward graphic designers but does a pretty good job pricing artwork in a variety of industries. It also has ready-made contracts in the back. Whatever you decide to charge as a base, make sure to multipy your fee by about 1.5 to cover your equipment costs, software upgrades and travel expenses (all this can be written off your taxes too!). And in my experience, if you negotiate “net 30 plus 7” terms, ALWAYS charge interest on late payments. I had one clent who took nearly a year (yes, a year) to make the final payment on our contract. I could have made three times as much money on that one job if I had charged interest! Well, you live and learn, right? :slight_smile:

I hope this helps.

#45

Thanks for the tips! I did freelance IS/IT work for a number of years, both with a partner who did much of the business side, on my own, and with a firm that did my billing / accounting for me. Yes… know all about contracts. I’ve had the Jerry Maguire experience with ‘my word is solid oak’ or whatever that phrase was. :eek:

I’ll have to pick up a copy of that book when I get to that point. Right now, I work full time, and am technically a full time student as well… so no time for projects on the side really. But, after school, I might very well try to actually make some money on my hobby. :slight_smile:

-Steve

#46

Steve – My Pleasure. Just sharing my design field take on the 3D stuff.

Brian – I hope I didn’t do too much “chiming in”. This is your thread and you’re clearly the person to talk to about career advice in the animation industry. :bowdown:

The advice you’ve already given me has been invaluable. Thanks!

#47

No worries… really. It should be an open discussion. I’ve wanted to make some more comments, but I’ve been really swamped at work… I promise a response soon.

#48

Getting a job at ILM is no mystery by any means. They need just about every type of artist. Generalists, modelers, animators, texture painters, etc… In my department in particular, we desired generalists over specialists because previs is so much about being able to do a little bit of everything. We focused on speed and efficiency rather than noodling things to death. However, on occassion, its nice to have a specialist available.

Dedicated departments on the other hand required specialists. I knew several ILM animators that wouldn’t be able to model a cube if their lives depended on it, but they could sure animate. Ok…maybe they could model a cube…but I’m almost not kidding. lol.

The whole generalist vs specialist debate has been going on for a while now. Both are valuable and both serve a different purpose. As a freelancer, being a generalist is a good thing. You have to be. However, everyone tends to align themselves with a particular discipline anyway…even as a generalist I know that I can fly a camera and create great cinematography that is better than most people. However, if you ask me to rig, I’m gonna take a while. My point is…getting into a place like ILM isn’t entirely about what you know. Its also how you sell yourself. Of course you’ll be fired in an instant if you can’t deliver what you sell… but I can’t tell you how many talented artists I’ve seen get passed by because they have zero people skills. Marketing is crucial. Presentation is crucial.

#49

I’m curious how people feel about independent short animated films and whether or not itunes/video ipod/portable playstation/ cell phones have created a viable market for animated shorts. I’m also curious if people thinks it’s possible a “Nano” Series could be successful (kind of like a TV mini series, but in mini, mini , mini form.)

In my humble opinion, I think it may be possible. Just not sure what kind of business model you would need in order to be profitable.

Thanks,

Mike

#50

Yeah! Good to hear the generalists still have a role out there. In my drafting career, for quite a few years, I was a “fire fighter”. I Basically was put on jobs where they needed a competent, efficient, good worker. It kept me moving from group to group, building to building for quite awhile. At one time I had my desk in building 3, phone in Building 2, and I was working for a group in building 1. I became proficient at learning the top surface of the task at hand without getting into things to deep. A lot of times I’d pop in on a job for a month or two and then move on to another “fire”.

The hard part of all that is it has become difficult to stay focused on one thing at times, which in turn has made it difficult to finish much art when I’m at home… though another issue is my interests are very broad so life is like a large candy shop sometimes, if you know what I mean.

…well coffee breaks over… back to the day job.

~Mike

#51

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