Josh, thanks for the post, and you are correct. It is the journey, not the destination. There really are no boundaries because she will be enhancing her already admirable creative skills that can be applied to a wide-range of available fields. I went to a 2 year college simply for the piece of paper. It was my creative skills I had been nurturing from an early age that lead me to my career.
Thanks again,
Charles
I’m sure the game development industry is just as tough. Thank you for bringing up the importance of networking. I’m going to be passing this entire thread onto my daughter so she can read, review and sign in. I’m sure she will have more questions to ask, so thank you for being open for discussion. 
Really appreciated!
Charles
Jeff, Thank you for getting involved in the discussion and providing the placement statistics! My daughter is extremely excited about coming down to see the DAVE school, and quite honestly so are we. I’m an old Lightwave guy (think Video Toaster) and have watched more than a handful of William “Proton” Vaughan’s tutorials online. Hopefully he will be there and I can say “Howdy”. I know the game development track is new, but can’t wait to learn more about it.
Sincerely,
Charles
Great info to bring up! We have already done some preliminary research for obtaining a loan through our local bank branch. They actually seem to have some flexible options for students, but we still need to do a formal sit-down with them to learn more. Although the DAVE school is expensive for their 12-15 month programs, it’s not near what an “Art” school would cost over the course of 4 years. You’re talking 40k vs 120k-200k.
Thank you very much for the feedback
Charles
Hi Charles -
I am a DAVE graduate from 2004. The school was a little different back then, but still - money well spent. There’s also something to be said that some of the staff are still there, even after 10 years in the industry. Yes, that’s correct. I got a job within a month of graduating, and even though I switched jobs once since then, I’m still in it.
I was 34 when I enrolled, choosing a different career and looking for an educational opportunity - I do better with instructor-led classes than on my own. I toured a couple of schools when I was looking, both 4-year programs and DAVE school. DAVE appealed because I already had quite a bit of college under my belt, and wasn’t looking forward to retaking a lot of ‘common core’ that is required in the 4-year programs. DAVE offered a 1-year, tech-school experience, and was able to transfer enough of my credits to get me an associate’s. They also gave me an intense, 1-year education specifically in cg - and the program was designed to give me exposure to as many elements of the process as possible (A generalist study). What that gives the aspiring artist is the chance to figure out where their strengths are, and what aspects of the pipeline they want to really pursue, whether it’s modeling, animating, rigging, texturing, lighting, or what-have-you. It is NOT a 1-year modeling program, it’s a 1 year generalist program.
They also offered me the chance to stay on and take a (free at the time) Maya course upon graduation, as their primary software for the main curriculum back then was LightWave.
I never intended to move to LA and make movies. But I did head back home to the northeast, and found employment at a small ad agency within one month of my return. I worked with them for three years, and then moved to a position at a DoD contractor, and I’ve been there ever since. I also was nudged by William Vaughan (from the school) to write for then-industry magazine HDRI-3D, and I did a number of feature articles for them. It gave me the opportunity to talk to and meet a number of the ‘movie houses’ and ad agencies in our industry, helping me to network in a way that not every school can provide. I should probably note that the DAVE school didn’t get me my job at the ad agency. I got me that job. But they gave me the tools to back myself up, and to interview confidently.
I’d like to expand on that. Attending a school isn’t JUST about the classes or the teachers, though DAVE has both of those in spades. It also isn’t JUST about the dollar value - I wasn’t looking for a ‘budget education’ here. I wanted quality and was willing to pay for it. But I also want to know I’m getting my money’s worth in the end. I can’t tell you that your daughter will be the best cg artist ever (that’s your job 
), but I can tell you that the DAVE education is a quality one, and that she’ll get out of it what she puts into it. If she slacks off, she won’t do well. If she does the bare minimum of what’s required, she’ll be ‘okay’. But if she spends her time focused on her education, and practices in the off-hours when she’s not in the classroom setting, DAVE can feed her mind quite well.
Another thing DAVE offered that I think some institutions might fall short on, is the networking. Many times, someone will get a job not just because they’re a talented artist, but because of who they know, and who THOSE people know. The staff at DAVE are industry pros - they know people. And those people know people. The responses you’re seeing on this very thread are testament to that. I didn’t happen across it - I was ‘pinged’ and alerted to it. Networking in this industry isn’t the end-all-beat-all, but it is so very important, and DAVE has it.
I suppose the reason you’re looking for opinions from people on here (and your daughter isn’t… yet) is because you’re footing the bill. Is it money well-spent? I think so. Will DAVE provide what they state? In my experience, they did. I am proud enough of the school that I recommend it to others who are seeking the tech-school style education.
If you’d like to contact me with further questions, feel free. And I wish you and your daughter the best, no matter what school you choose.
Of course Charles, whenever you have any doubts of anything you can either message me through LinkedIn, or shoot me an email address to "daniellopezjr@gmail.com", DAVE School is like a huge happy family, any of us I’m sure would be more than glad to answer any of your doubts!
Not going to re-hash everything that has already been said. Just gonna throw out a few thoughts. (From 2004 8)
There are 3 things that I feel the DAVE School offered me, that I wasn’t likely to get anywhere else:
Real World experience. The Instructors had worked in the industry, so they were well-equipped to prepare us for what was coming. So much so, that my first job out of the school, actually felt like the Fourth Block (the Final Project). It was nearly identical in every way, except I was getting paid for it.
Networking. They have a ton of contacts throughout the film industry. I knew that going in. What I was surprised to learn was they also have contacts in games. A guest instructor came through while I was around, and I got to know him, and learn from him. A year later he offered me a job.
After graduation support. One of the best parts, was getting to come back to the school to continue to learn, while I worked on things on my own. They also had a few different opportunities for me to earn a bit of money while I learned. I saw that someone mentioned the TA thing as a negative, but I’d like to give another spin on it. I was one. It wasn’t because I couldn’t get a job elsewhere. It was a place to continue to learn and work on my skills while getting paid and looking for the next job. As soon as work was found, they pushed me away. (Hopefully to make spot for the next guy 8) It wasn’t a job or TA…It was TA till I found a job.
DAVE School was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. (Worked at Monolith Productions for 8 years)
I would like to address a couple of the comments made about The DAVE School regarding jobs and our placement rate. I am the director of career services for The DAVE School and it is my responsibility to help our students find a job after graduation and its a responsibility I take pretty seriously. The graduates who know me are familiar with my work ethic and the heights to which I will climb for them. I have helped many of them find not just their first job, but sometimes even their second and third jobs as well. We offer LIFETIME career placement assistance for our graduates and I am happy to help whenever I can. Often I learn about new opportunities from graduates who I have helped in the past
thats because the DAVE School network is tight and our graduates absolutely love this school as evidenced by the replies. 
It should be noted that nobody coached our graduates on what to say. I simply posted a link on facebook to this thread for ALL of our graduates to see and I mentioned that there was some misinformation being posted on CG Society.
With regards to what types of jobs our graduates are getting
its a wide variety of companies who hire them and contrary to popular belief not everyone wants to work in Hollywood. In addition to the many graduates who are currently working in gaming companies and doing VFX for TV and feature films
we have also placed graduates in Military Simulation, architectural visualization, medical animation, 3D print advertising, trial and jury simulations, VFX for commercials, and 3D printing companies.
NO SCHOOL can guarantee job placement but anyone who attends our school should expect an intense year of very fast paced hands on training and the harder a student works the more successful they will be. If anyone has any questions about our placement practices, please message me and I will be happy to answer all questions.
Charles,
I graduated a four year State University in Dec 2004 with a Bachelors Degree in Digital Art. I spent 4 years trying to learn visual effects, buying books, self teaching myself things and all it got me was a pay bump at the Graphics Design job I already had for the last 3 years. I was fed up and began looking around. I toured Dave School and stated 3 months later in March 2005.
I graduated Dave School March 31st 2006 and started April 3rd 2006 in Los Angeles at my first job that I lined up a month earlier with help from the skills I had learned while attending the school, their instructors and most importantly the schools already large network of graduates successfully working in the industry. (The school was barely five years old at this time). I had that job for 2 1/2 years helping create work for Dogfights on the History channel. Since leaving that job I have worked at Digital Domain, Rhythm & Hues, Zoic Studios, Pixomondo, Eden FX, Ntropic LA, Ntropic NY, Origami Digital, Visual Cue, HiFi3D, and Motion Theory to name a few with 9 days between jobs being my longest unemployment period. I currently freelance from my home office for Encore Hollywood and a few other studios around the world. I attribute the success I’ve had to the Dave School. The way they approach their curriculum now and even back then has helped me to sit down at a desk in any capacity and not be intimidated by the software. I’ve worked in various roles throughout my career (supervisor, modeler, lighter, texture artist, lookdev, compositor, game engine artist) and on various pieces of software (Maya, Nuke, Lightwave, After Effects, Fusion, Max) and had the confidence to do all of them from that initial skillset I got while attending DAVE.
I had the privilege to work on site at the Dave school from February-May 2014 and supervise a few of their recent graduates working on Why Planes Crash for MSNBC. Those guys were amazingly talented and the ink had barely dried on their certificates. I got to see first hand that the Dave school is still striving to improve their curriculum on a daily basis and keep up with industry trends before a lot of larger schools even know they exist.
Can your daughter achieve success going somewhere else? Absolutely! She’ll get out what she puts in. Will they work their tails off to help her succeed and get a job? Now that’s a whole different conversation entirely. Does she need to join this forum to get help? Wouldn’t hurt and it’s a great resource, but I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve needed to come here in the last decade. I used to have a different account but it’s been too long.
To verify I’m not just blowing smoke, you can refer to the following links:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2485873/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
https://vimeo.com/94707202
http://www.dutch360hdr.com/shop/?page_id=695
http://www.digitalvfx.com/
Leigh,
I’m a big fan of your work and have been since I first bought Lightwave 8 Lighting (upon recommendation from my Dave School instructors). Our mutual friends have nothing but great things to say about you and I mean you no disrespect.
Let me speak about the DAVE School from an employer perspective.
We currently have three DAVE School graduates here at The Global Asylum and all of them are extremely talented, well-versed in the industry and were ready to roll right from the beginning. That two of them have been here for nearly three years (and another I’ve worked in the industry with nearly five) speaks to both the longevity and quality of both the people and the training.
We have in the past also used DAVE School talent in freelance capacities and helped with educational projects in order to see how things might work. Though the results can be mixed we found that, as in the industry, the people who put in the effort with enthusiasm and great attitudes got the job done and done well. Those who didn’t likely wouldn’t make it past a job interview either way.
Still and all our experience with DAVE School grads has been exemplary and in the right circumstances I’d give them a higher rating for knowledge and capacity than anyone else just starting out… even coming away from the school with a strong, varied demo reel is a major thing.
Is it perfect? No. No one place, no person and no thing is. There are rough spots, challenges, learning experiences no matter where one goes… and there is definitely truism that you get out of things what you put in. That the DAVE School provides such a wide range of education with instructors who have, more often than not, actually BEEN in the trenches can be a wonderful thing for a student looking to jump-start a future.
Full disclosure: Jeff Scheetz, the current director, hired me for my first job at Foundation Imaging and is a long-time good friend… but I don’t jump on here on his or anyone elses request or behalf except your daughters: to give her the widest range of knowledge and opinions to make the decision that is right for her and her future.
The truth is that the DAVE School has the capacity to be one of the best options available. If I didn’t believe that, irregardless of my friendship, I would have chosen to remain silent.
I hope the decision no matter where it leads goes well and best of fortune in the future!
Joseph J. Lawson, VFX Supervisor, The Global Asylum
Hello everybody!
To introduce myself, I am Chloe, the daughter of Charles. To start, I would like to thank everyone for posting helpful information about the DAVE school(especially Mr.Scheetz, and the numerous graduates of DAVE).
I would also like to touch base that I am actively working on my portfolio and looking into schools that would be the right fit for what I am interested in. My father, and mother, will be the ones supporting me going into this field so it is only normal that they want the most information as possible(as I do, too) and I appreciate them helping me through this.
I understand some of your worries about how hard working I am and my ability to cope under the stress of this industry. Of course, as an artist who wants to take her work to the professional level, I am very dedicated and I am up for the challenges I will surely face with a career in this field.
My new computer is almost built, and my learning is about to begin! I also want to bring it to your attention that I am a junior in high school so I do have time to expand my skills and become familiar with these programs(Maya, Unity, and Modo).
Also, a little bit about what I have done with computer graphics ranges from Photoshop, Firealpaca, and Paint Tool Sai. I have also messed around a bit with Toon Boom, but I need the newer computer to operate it smoothly and efficiently as well as Anime Studio Debut.
Thanks again for the information all of you have provided. I am sure I will have a flood of questions and will need to reach out to those of you working in the field. I appreciate all of you being open for additional questions and communication.
I know I have a TON to learn!
-Chloe Moser
Hello,
I am a current DAVE student, VFX, current Block 4.
I think that all the other graduates pretty much covered it all. I am sure that you can see how passionate we are about DAVE school. I am not very good in writing or sugar coating anything so I will just start stating facts about DAVE.
Cheers!
Hope Brackin
Dave School Rocks! Just be determined to do well. If you go in with the wrong attitude, don’t expect to get far, but that goes for everything in life. They do have some good people in place to help you succeed, so it shouldn’t be too hard. Just don’t be lazy and bring your best. They give you a tough environment and if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere. Yeah, I’m in NY. Email me, if you have any questions.
thomascheng
@
I was a Student (2001), and Long Time Employee of the school (6 years till about 2007-8), By and large I thought the school was a great experience, and while placement from any school can never be guaranteed the school does give you ample opportunity to succeed and make industry contacts. The latter being probably the most important aspect of the school, at least during my time there.
While I was employed there, I met a lot of great people, both industry professionals and students who went out to do great things. My own experiences ranged from doing small animation projects for small clients, to working on the BSG pilot, shows like Fringe, BSG: Blood and Chrome, Defiance etc etc. And while the school has changed a great deal since my time there, I have recently visited it, and it looks and feels a lot more substantial, than it ever had in the years I had been there.
Check it out before making a final decision, let facts direct opinion, and not supposition, or rumor.
However like anything in life, you get out what you put into it, you work hard, and are friendly with those around you there is no reason you can’t take it to the next level.
The industry itself can be a pretty brutal one, but I suppose that is like any job where you have to meet critical deadlines.
Let’s be realistic here, most artists that work in high-end studios in the department they wanted to work did not go to any school.
They got their because their hobby turned into their work, through years of personal projects and figuring stuff out they got to the point of being hired by high end studios.
OR they worked their way up from smaller companies to bigger ones with the help of work-experience rather than education.
The thing is, if someone has the passion to stick with for instance 3D work for multiple years without getting paid for it (hobby) yet improving all the time it shows very strong motivation and studios pick this up. That is the dedication they are looking for, that strive for perfection.
There are a couple that did university courses related to the field but that’s it.
Couple that with the fact that unless a studio is so busy it desperately needs artists there are very few junior positions up for grabs in the departments you’d probably want to work. (Asset/Comp/Lighting/Lookdev/Rigging)
Cobra 6
Hi Jeff,
I’m sorry that you find my comments offensive, as this was not my intention. Nor was it my intention to use my “position as a moderator and shaper of public opinion” to accomplish anything; on the contrary, any opinion I post here is reflective solely of my views based on my experience as an artist working in the VFX industry. You’ll find I’m reasonably active on this education subforum and am very open with my opinions, as I have strong views on the subject of education. This is because, as a visible (online) and approachable working artist, I’ve have for many years been on the receiving end of countless correspondences from graduates from around the world, frustrated by the difficulty of finding work in the industry they so desperately want to work in.
I’m a little dismayed that you appear to have taken a humorous remark about “Uncle Bob” seriously when that was intended as a tongue-in-cheek extreme example. The more pertinent point that I was hoping to make with my post was the sentence which immediately followed:
There’s simply no way that 80% of graduates from any school, even the top ones like VFS, get jobs in high end studios, doing the kind of work that most students entering the facility are hoping to do.
I firmly believe this, and I’d like to stress the fact that my post repeatedly uses the phrase “any school”, because my post was about the education system as a whole. This is certainly not the first time I’ve expressed this view, because I find it frustrating that so many prospective students are sold on a dream of working as animators or other high profile positions in what is believed to be a glamorous field by schools around the world, when, as a worker in the field, I know there are hardly any jobs to go around. Even highly experienced artists are struggling to find work in these difficult times, while things are even harder for those trying to break in. Fresh graduates who dreamed of working as animators or modellers or TDs are finding it almost impossible to obtain employment in those roles. This is why I posted the comment quoted above. This was not a deliberate attempt to discredit the DAVE School, as you’ve interpreted it, it’s an expression of my view on the state of the industry and education as a whole.
It’s not my wish to be drawn into a lengthy debate with the many people who’ve posted their views here (you can imagine my surprise upon seeing the huge response this morning), but I would like to end off my post by commenting on the ACICS criteria, which you’ve mentioned and which is mentioned on the DAVE School website here:
http://www.daveschool.com/?page_id=84
The graduate placement percentage links to a footnote (the bold text is my own emphasis):
- Percent of graduates available for placement who obtain employment directly or indirectly related to the field of study within four months after the end of the reporting period. Rate calculated for 2013 2014 graduates based upon ACICS formula, http://acics.org/accreditation/content.aspx?id=5712.
I’m unclear as to how what I said is in conflict with this disclaimer on your site; indeed, it makes the same statement that I did, albeit without a tongue in cheek remark about wedding logos.
In closing, I’ll say once again that I’m sorry that you found my post offensive. Perhaps my use of facetious humour to make a point was a little too inappropriate (I personally like to keep things a little light hearted, even when discussing serious topics), but the subject of graduates struggling to find work in an over-saturated field is, to be totally frank, not a topic that I will refrain from expressing my opinions on.
with rampant manipulation of figures for acics accreditation being a hot topic in the news across the entire education spectrum (not just cg!), i would say its wise to not take marketing claims from education institutions at face value:
http://higheredwatch.newamerica.net/blogposts/2011/is_anyone_minding_the_store_on_for_profit_college_job_placement_rates-58231
http://higheredwatch.newamerica.net/blogposts/2011/tricks_of_the_trade_school-57227
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/19/for-profit-college-accreditation_n_3937079.html
http://www.collegetimes.tv/accreditation/
if daveschool graduates really are finding jobs, cool. more power to them. but i dont think its a bad thing to question claims made by schools -infact i would say its an essential part of researching your education options. i know i would also find the large percentage being claimed here hard to believe.
just my 2c.
D.
I would like to take a moment to thank EVERYONE that provided information. I find all of it very useful. Honestly, I had no idea this thread would become so active, but that is a good thing IMHO. My intentions were to come here and find out a little more about the DAVE school and hopefully connect with some of their graduates and get a little more detailed information about their program and hear about any successes and/or failures. I wish I had the time to respond to each of you individually.
There are a lot of common themes and excellent information in this thread:
[ol]
[li]You get out, what you put in
[/li][li]This industry (as with others) can be brutal, tough and challenging
[/li][li]It’s not necessarily your formal education, but your drive and passion that leads to success
[/li][li]There are friendly people in this field trying to help each other out!
[/li][/ol]
To me, every post on here has value, and I have learned some great information about the DAVE school:
The DAVE school…
[ol]
[li]has many passionate, satisfied and successful graduates
[/li][li]has a strong alumni
[/li][li]has dedicated aftercare for graduates to assist in successful placement after graduation and are available to assist them anytime during their career
[/li][li]has instructors who are experts in their field (many still work in it)
[/li][li]allows graduates to come back and refresh their education at anytime, free of cost.
[/li][/ol]
I’ve also learned that there are many people who can not hack it at DAVE school, I believe one poster stated that they lost over half of the class due to work-load/stress, etc…
I have no reason not to believe their placement and/or the data that supports it. I DO UNDERSTAND that PLACEMENT does not mean that you will get placed at your dream job or doing exactly what you are passionate about (although it can happen). You could very well end up in a contractual lower-level type job until something better comes your way, but that is the nature of the beast. As many have stated: What you get out, is what you put in.
So, if you want to grab that dream job, go at it with everything you got and continue to work your craft and improve your skill-set. Landing a job after graduation is critical, and if it is working anywhere in the related industry, then that is a good thing. You got to start somewhere.
We are really looking forward to visiting the DAVE school and meeting the people (Chloe sent away for the information packets last night). I’m sure it will be a great experience, but we are also keeping an open mind about alternatives.
I would still like to hear from all of you, especially if there are any DAVE school graduates from the video game course, or maybe one of you knows someone that completed the video game course and could help us make that connection.
Best of luck to all of you in your respective fields,
Charles
You are correct, that is one of the reasons. We, as parents, are making an investment in her future. We realize she will end up with school debt no matter what school she attends, but we will also be assisting her with those expenses. If the DAVE school does turn out to be her decision, then we will not want her to have to work a part-time job while attending. We want her complete attention on their instruction.
Thank you for the great information!
Charles