So, can EI do displacements?

[Igors]

Hi, Alonzo

In Maya, using Pixolators video for Mental Ray render

there’s two input boxes.

Alpha Gain
Alpha Offset

Typically “gain” is what’s named as a “falloff” in EI, so we guess it doesn’t change displacement direction but only modulates it. But “offset” should (we guess). Can the writer post a several images with different offsets?

[AVTPro]

Hi, Alonzo
Typically “gain” is what’s named as a “falloff” in EI, so we guess it doesn’t change displacement direction but only modulates it. But “offset” should (we guess). Can the writer post a several images with different offsets?

Sorry Igors. The writer is not so ingenius. I haven’t got a good render yet from EI or Maya. I guess that’s why I am a bit frustrated. I will keep trying. I will let you know if I get anything good. I’m just starting my retesting today.

[AVTPro]

I’m giving God the Glory for this, because I’m still scratching my head. I don’t know why but It’s working!

AUVs. No Seams. No Nothing

[left]
[/left]

[AVTPro]

Not sure what that one spot is, but still this is all far better than before. All I got was the big spots.

I would say this detail is fine for 8 bit…but so was the 16mb of RAM

Dealing with PS was a lot easier this time, I think because I wasn’t so bombarded with modeling and sculpting. I only had to render this model and so I didn’t mind playing with the maps in Photoshop this time. I was still learning ZBrush, so it’s was all confusing and tiring last time I tried this. It only two one or two renders to get something reasonable.
OK…guess the party is over.

Now about the wmp maps tearing ack!

Thanks everyone for helping me get a better understanding.

One key point,
My first render was too undefined. Then I went on the Pixolator site and notice
his map had more contrast. I used levels then it seem to look a lot more
similiar to his.

This would not be possible without in EI without Obj2Fact
www.ramjac.com
and
Encage from Igors.
www.konkeptione.com

and

God

[AVTPro]

The flat spots may come from conversions? Can’t say unless there were no photoshop conversion involved, (which is that I perfer).

I didn’t do a best test, just getting it to work.

[manuel]

Did you clip the whites or blacks a bit when adjusting the levels in Photoshop? Looking good though. What was the subdivision level in Encage?

[AVTPro]

So you have your low res in EIAS and the Camera renders the hi-res with Encage. This is good functionality. ( when it works
I couldn’t open the Obj to convert it into a Fact file without O2F. EI wouldn’t see it, but I didn’t try Transporter.

Last one. I gotta go look for a tree in the shade
Just kidding, not going to stop animation but still would like to do paintings.

Thanks again ALL. It’s good I complain before I make it work else I wouldn’t talk about the problem. I hope it works as good on my models now (?)

[AVTPro]

Did you clip the whites or blacks a bit when adjusting the levels in Photoshop? Looking good though. What was the subdivision level in Encage?

It must have…but the levels adjusted I added had everything to do with the sucessful displacement.

I think also the artist who made the maps, really knew what he was doing.

I used 3, then 4 was the final. However it looked OK at the defaults. and Thanks.

[AVTPro]

Hi, Alonzo

[/center]
There are 4 pictures (from left to right)

Picture 1 - default (positive) EI displacement

Picture 2 - it corresponds to negative displacement direction WITH inverted source map. “Just negative” looks like mirror (X-axis), i.e. hills and pits are swapped

Picture 3 - it’s possible to obtain but with a lot of ventures: need to cut off a half of first map, and “another one half” of second inverted map etc. etc.

Picture 4 - no comments, we don’t know what ZB does

Igors thanks for taking the time

[AVTPro]

As Igors said, there may be advantages for have a separate positive and negative map. If we keep it and add one check box to switch the gray value range so we can use a single map, so we can decide which to use. This way, a greyscale image can be paint in photoshop (ligh and dark with gray as base).

Again, I think this whole thread shows how “Top Notch” EI Users are passionate, knowledgeable, considerate and most of all, helpful. Thanks, it good to know you guys around. I in someway, this thread helps other EI users.

I want to post one more image testing on something I have modeled.

[manuel]

I’m not too sure they were saying that there were advantages to using two maps. Just that one map isn’t going to solve all your problems.

[AVTPro]

Definitely won’t solve my money problems

But I would settle for workflow problems. However I agree, It’s only one step in the process.

[Igors]

Hi, Alonzo, Manuel

I’m not too sure they were saying that there were advantages to using two maps. Just that one map isn’t going to solve all your problems.

Ahhaa, we see artists can understand developers very well Of course, it’s affair of artist how many maps he needs, so, as minimum, we never said he shouldn’t use 2 or more maps.

About EI+ZB: be honest, we don’t know where is “bottleneck” here. The “turtle head” Alonzo showed looks impressive, but, unfortunately, not all from ZB is going so successfully. We’ve uploaded an old archive on EI beta server: 6.5\Images and Renders\Igors\Simple-Bias1.sit. It was prepared by Reuben (as we remember, sorry if not). Our idea was to see/check EI/ZB compatibility by using a simple cube example. The result is “full fiasco” (of compatibility). First we see no way to map image as in ZB :sad: Second - bloody seams :eek: . We are confused, cause, as we understand, with such map a normal render SHOULD be seamed. We’ve checked it with Max and Maya - yes, seams too. We are also confused that incoming map has no any hints/additional info that can be used to fix (like, say, a mask alpha channel)

[AVTPro]

   About EI+ZB: be honest, we don't know where is "bottleneck" here. We've uploaded an old archive on EI beta server: 6.5\Images and Renders\Igors\Simple-Bias1.sit. Our idea was to check EI/ZB compatibility by using a simple cube example.  First we see no way to map image as in ZB :sad:  Second - bloody seams :eek: .  We are confused, cause, as we understand, with such map a normal render SHOULD be seamed. We've checked it with Max and Maya - yes, seams too. We are also confused that incoming map has no any hints/additional info that can be used to fix (like, say, a mask alpha channel)

   First I want to say thanks Igors for the comment about the turtle head (LOL) 
   and second for sharing your concerns and frustration about programming issues. 
   
   I'm going to see if this will works again with other models soon. 
   
   So I want to cross reference something I wrote in postforum. I'm going to try to keep future discussion in this forum to avoid disorganization :)
   
   [http://www.postforum.com/forums/read.php?f=9&i=40916&t=40901](http://www.postforum.com/forums/read.php?f=9&i=40916&t=40901)
   
   Again, I'm a fresh Zbrusher so it doesn't mean I'm 100% sure about anything but the image says I'm not completely wrong either hha. 

Bottom line, I think seams are user error and not program error and I don’t think micropoly or 16 bit is pivotal to good or expressive renders. I think EIAS being able to use a single displacement map
for positive and negative is most important for artist.

   I wish people did not see adaptive mapping as the only Zbrush technique for mapping. It's just very fast and simple if it works. I believe that AUV is like reqular UVs you have to learn to perfect it. Else there wouldn't be so many options to fix it in Zbrush like "Check UVs, Fix Seams and Smooth UVs" I think EI users just need to learn the options to make AUV if that's the type of UV mapping you chose. There's no seam in the Pixolator AUV "Turtle Head" because the Artist knew how to make maps without seams. I choose to use GUV because I can put one seam and control image. AUV is nice but you can't look at the map in PS and say I want to fix this area...it's only squares. 
   
   So this is also why I made a "royal change of mind" about two maps oppose to one map. I think it's still better to have one map..but if you still need to bring it in PS to edit the single map, the 5 extra minutes to separate with Lolo's curves is not so bad. Once....but if you have to do it lots of test renders then. 5 mins * 10 tests = one hour of extra time and headache. 
   
   This is the bottleneck but it is only the most obvious one that should be solved first. It's solves problem of loading separation curves in PS, then reload two maps setting in EI displacement. There's confusion in this process double map when you edit one displacement setting. Do you also have to change both positive and negative to make a change in the image? positive or negative or both? Then what happens if you just change negative? So you must carry problem not just in PS but over to EI. And longer you carry problem, the heavier it gets :)
  
  [img]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f190/AVTPro/AVT_Pixolator_test.jpg[/img]

[AVTPro]

So this is the culprit that sent me down the Zbrush path. I didn’t want to model the craters by hand. Call me lazy. haha.

Special thanks to LOLO

The door is swinging wide open on this one now. Mission Accomplished!!
It will be good to use my favorite renderer with Zbrush

BTW, wasn’t going for super high res…just craters and textures without smears.

[Reuben5150]

We’ve uploaded an old archive on EI beta server: 6.5\Images and Renders\Igors\Simple-Bias1.sit. It was prepared by Reuben (as we remember, sorry if not). Our idea was to see/check EI/ZB compatibility by using a simple cube example. The result is “full fiasco” (of compatibility). First we see no way to map image as in ZB :sad: Second - bloody seams :eek: . We are confused, cause, as we understand, with such map a normal render SHOULD be seamed. We’ve checked it with Max and Maya - yes, seams too. We are also confused that incoming map has no any hints/additional info that can be used to fix (like, say, a mask alpha channel)

Hi Igors,

Regarding that simple-cube-test, if i remember correctly i had problems with the texture alignment, probably due to the fact the model was converted on a PC, there is still an outstanding issue here, but i upoaded the prj anyway.

IMO the only way to convert the Zbrush models is with OBJ2Fac2 on a mac, all other methods destroy the texture quadrangle which means you have to try and align the texture “by hand” or input the values, its hit-and-miss… 95% miss unfortunately.

Whats the problem ? i don’t have a Mac !!!

Today i will fire up Zbrush for a new test.

Reuben

[AVTPro]

I said was going to look at this after I did my test. I saw your original beta test report.
I couldn’t figure out why you were having problems with placement, especially with UVs. This is what I found.

No problem with placement or seams.
[left]
I didn’t separate the maps in PS, I think that is where the banding is coming from,but it’s not seams.
[/left]
If you have a model you need converted let me know Rueben’s let me know.

[Igors]

Hi, Reuben, Alonzo

I couldn’t figure out why you were having problems with placement, especially with UVs. This is what I found.

No problem with placement or seams.

[left]

Hmm… Alonzo, please upload this prj to us (into our folder on EI beta site or give us another link). Let us first learn, then talk:)

IMO the only way to convert the Zbrush models is with OBJ2Fac2 on a mac, all other methods destroy the texture quadrangle which means you have to try and align the texture “by hand” or input the values, its hit-and-miss… 95% miss unfortunately.

For normalized UV’s it’s not a big problem to calculate scales manually. Hmm… maybe it would be interested to re-check a sword model you rendered?

[/left]

[AVTPro]

Hi, Reuben, Alonzo
Hmm… Alonzo, please upload this prj to us (into our folder on EI beta site or give us another link). Let us first learn, then talk:)

For normalized UV’s it’s not a big problem to calculate scales manually. Hmm… maybe it would be interested to re-check a sword model you rendered?

[/left]
[/center]

Do you mean my project ? It’s the same project file that’s up there now. I got it this morning. I just looked up in the thread, followed it and it was still there.

We’ve uploaded an old archive on EI beta server: 6.5\Images and Renders\Igors\Simple-Bias1.sit.—

Or do you want my project I just converted? NO WAY! EIAS works fine. I don’t want you to change anything in EI except single mapping. Not until you fix the Weight Map “Tearing” Problem. Encage is not a solution for weight tearing in character skins. I can’t rig my characters anymore. You have to fix it first! Then I give you my project file.

Just kidding. I know that’s not the proper way to get a bug fix. You can have the project…long as it’s just a fix for PC. Works fine on the Mac.

I will put it in the same folder…but if you happen to see any tearing weight maps on your way…Help a crazy character out.

[yhloon]

Hi Igors,

Regarding that simple-cube-test, if i remember correctly i had problems with the texture alignment, probably due to the fact the model was converted on a PC, there is still an outstanding issue here, but i upoaded the prj anyway.

IMO the only way to convert the Zbrush models is with OBJ2Fac2 on a mac, all other methods destroy the texture quadrangle which means you have to try and align the texture “by hand” or input the values, its hit-and-miss… 95% miss unfortunately.

Whats the problem ? i don’t have a Mac !!!

Today i will fire up Zbrush for a new test.

Reuben

Hi Reuben

I’ve no problem (at the moment) to bring UV in to EI, not even the position problem, and I’m using PC without O2F, the trick is use the whole UV space… I mean occupy the 4 edges of the UV space.

for instance, a UV unwrap of a cube, where there is space at the top and the bottom of the space…this will cause position problem in EI

move the UV or scretch it to ‘touch’ the edges…than export to obj file convert to fact format with transporter (uncheck all the check box) that should fix the position problem…