So, can EI do displacements?

[Reuben5150]

Hi, ReubenThe calculation of perturbed surface normals (bump/displ) is same anywhere, it’s based on math from times of 17-18 century. The calculation is very simple (in principle) and (to avoid math/geometry specifics) can be formulated as: perturbed normal is a texture’s difference (gradient), not its absolute values. So, just see your textures: are there nice greyscale transitions/gradients? If yes, than a good bump/displ is guaranteed. Note that gradient’s smoothness is much, much more important than gradient’s amplitude/range. A map can be very dark or very bright overview - it’s not a big deal, the importance is only how many half-tones you have. If you see almost no transitions (as in ZB banding), so you’ve no chances to see rational bump/displ in these areas. It’s same like if you increase dramatically an amplitude of dark texture areas in PS: yes, you’ve got more white, but… very rough, no gradient, no data and any amplifying can’t help.

Ok, now i understand, thanks, i wasn’t visually inspecting the maps, just expected it to work:D

[Reuben5150]

If this is directly related to the ADE posting in PostForum. I would make a correction or addendum.

No, there is nothing more that can be done with that exporter to improve the results, it has a “smooth” setting which seems to apply some amount of blur, but i could not see any difference in the rendered output.

BTW, i’ve looked at a lot of the displacement tests on zbrushcentral.com and a lot of the other renderers produce similar banding effects when 8bit maps are used, obviously there is only one solution to this :rolleyes:

[Reuben5150]

Yes, Displacement is cool but there’s some drawback with settings that directly generate 8 bit. I still export 16 bit. I haven’t tested it enough tho, so maybe there’s something that works. But I still hold on to the 16 to 8 bit conversions as long as I can during the process.
.

I will try converting 16>8 bits in PS but i can’t see there being any difference.

[Reuben5150]

I will try converting 16>8 bits in PS but i can’t see there being any difference.

Alonzo, you are right !, PS conversion to 8 bits gives much better results !, but sorry i’m not going to re-do the ADE expoter codes, no i think Pixolator shoud be made aware of this, the whole point of the ADE is to improve workflow, i’ll make some comparison shots and post em to ZBC.

[Reuben5150]

Actually PS conversion versus ADE export hmm i can’t say one is better than the other, with ps there is less banding but also less detail and more grain, ok…

Time for time out !

[AVTPro]

Alonzo, you are right !, PS conversion to 8 bits gives much better results !, but sorry i’m not going to re-do the ADE expoter codes, no i think Pixolator shoud be made aware of this, the whole point of the ADE is to improve workflow, i’ll make some comparison shots and post em to ZBC.

Great youre finding what works and what’s not as good. So, just trying to be objective (as I usually am

True or False?

The ADE you posted work well with desired results?
The ADE settings on PF produce banding?
ADE with 16 bit produced desirable results?
Photoshop conversion from 16 to 8 workflow produce desire results?
Did blur in EI help any of your result or with or without AA?

Just something to think about. ADE 8 bit exports may work with some packages, but not EI.

Thanks for sharing your progress Rueben.

[Igors]

Hi, Alonzo

One question, Igors. If I shift the nuetral area and move the 50% nuetral to 0, what happens to darker areas? It goes to negative? And I only have to export two maps with no separation? Interesting thought?

Well, it requires to know well what is a shift, neutral etc. etc. It’s easy to confuse all this. Let us give you a simple formulas that are true for any operations:

displace_height = greyscale(x, y) * disp_factor
normal_perturb = (greyscale(x + dx, y + dy) - greyscale(x, y)) * bump_factor

where:

• x, y - 2D image (pixels) coordinates

• dx, dy - delta step in pixels (defined by texture’s samples, AA, blur). For simplicity you can think dx = dy = 1

• disp_factor, bump_factor - interface values (Texture Window)

Displacement is applied to vertices only, normals’ recalculation - to each rendered point.

[Reuben5150]

Great youre finding what works and what’s not as good. So, just trying to be objective (as I usually am

True or False?

1 The ADE you posted work well with desired results?
2 The ADE settings on PF produce banding?
3 ADE with 16 bit produced desirable results?
4 Photoshop conversion from 16 to 8 workflow produce desire results?
5 Did blur in EI help any of your result or with or without AA?

6 Just something to think about. ADE 8 bit exports may work with some packages, but not EI.

Thanks for sharing your progress Rueben.

1- True (within the limitations of 8bit)
2- In some cases, it is project dependent.
3- a photoshop conversion to 8bit is less accurate IMO, there is less detail but can also reduce the banding effect (if present) in final rendering.
4 read “3”
5 all already stated, blur cannot be use here, actualy its ok using default 1.0 but go past that and the seems will show up.

6 The ADE settings i provided are fine for EI, do i need to prove it ? :wise:

I would stay away from Major/minor though, this seems like a “theory” feature, like “in theory it does this”, in practice not so good.

Reuben

[AVTPro]

Hey Rueben, I haven’t been doing much Zbrushing this week. Trying to clean up my drives. Thanks for getting back.

No, you don't have to prove it to me. I take your word for it. If I didn't "believe" you, I would just test it for myself. LOL. I would never suggest otherwise.

AUV/GUV is really not an issue for me. I don't plan on using it routinely since UVGroups takes  seams/gaps or mis-renders completely out of the equation. Gaps in manual UV editing are non-existent. I'm simply not having it. That's why I have several succussful texture paints. I'm not saying other methods doesn't work. Remember, I'm the one who says " User error, not program error".

 As I have said many times, I go with what I know works. I subscribe to my own UVs. The small amount of time it takes to do UVs, is worth the success to me. I will be doing more UVGroups renders soon enough. 

This study we have been doing, I believe benefits the community, and I will do more but I never planned to use AUV/GUV in my general workflow. Eventhough, I believe AUV/GUV is workable, and does work. Even if AUVs and GUV were 120% reliable, I would still learn to use manual UVs because my goals are towards current studio workflows and not just the newest cool specialty thing. Manual UVs is basic stuff. Nothing special, but works. I'm glad I know it.


Since you are an Zbrush afficianado like me, I recommend you take a look at Scott Mills DVD just for the sake of it or love of it as I did with AUVs and GUV. (to know all I can about each process). You would see how it is nearly impossible to misfire with manual UVs if you know how to blend them and make them seamless. Just a suggestion. 

[http://web.mac.com/avtpro5/iWeb/Site/Blog/E681C9B2-9632-11DA-A009-0030657CE1C0.html](http://web.mac.com/avtpro5/iWeb/Site/Blog/E681C9B2-9632-11DA-A009-0030657CE1C0.html)

Good Luck and keep up the great work.

[AVTPro]

Hi, AlonzoWell, it requires to know well what is a shift, neutral etc. etc. It’s easy to confuse all this. Let us give you a simple formulas that are true for any operations:

displace_height = greyscale(x, y) * disp_factor
normal_perturb = (greyscale(x + dx, y + dy) - greyscale(x, y)) * bump_factor

where:

• x, y - 2D image (pixels) coordinates

• dx, dy - delta step in pixels (defined by texture’s samples, AA, blur). For simplicity you can think dx = dy = 1

• disp_factor, bump_factor - interface values (Texture Window)

Displacement is applied to vertices only, normals’ recalculation - to each rendered point.

Thanks Igors. That was absolutely not help. LOL.

Do you speak Artisanese instead of Programmar?

[MagicEgger]

Hey fellas,

Cineon files, HDRI, store more levels of whites and blacks…
and we can read in EIAS…
to make a good .hdri displacement, you probably need to mix 3 exposures of maps.
what happens if we use converted .hdri grayscale files to .img
Probably we will have a better displacement render, right?

Tomas

[AVTPro]

Wow! Thanks Tomas. You Rock. Going to have to look into that. I may need it, now that I’m begining to warm up to Zbrush.

[AVTPro]

[left]Finally did some edge loops and quad in Maya.

[/left]

[AVTPro]

I’m going to have to redo these movies but that are a start. AUV does work if you use 2x2 sampling as well. It’s iffy those

http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f190/AVTPro/?action=view&current=2-AVT-GUV.flv

[left]http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f190/AVTPro/?action=view&current=1-AVT-AUV.flv
[/left]

[AVTPro]

New Character

Cupitron.

I used Zbrush to polish it. No mapping yet.

[AVTPro]

I am going to move to the body. Special Thanks to Marissa Ellen Threet for being the cutie cutie baby model. She’s almost 14 years old now. June 18th Happy B-Day Boonie

[MagicEgger]

Hey,

I liked a lot you new model, your daughter, right?

Thankssss

Tomas

[AVTPro]

Hey Tomas! thanks. Yes, my one and only Sunshine!

Except this is suppose to be a boy…but at that age…guess it don’t matter. ahah.

Anyway, shortly I should be ready do to another video tute on ZB in EI. I have sort of lightened up on AUVs.

Also, I want to do an XP script for a multiple blend target in EI. Haven’t touched XP in a very long time. I should be starting soon. First I have to finish modeling the head in Maya, then I figure I should to the morph test from EIM. It’s still good at morphs, but I don’t model in it anymore.

This is just WIP, I’m not fighting wmps. I don’t have the time.

[AVTPro]

Hey guys…

Since I went on my June excursion, it’s been a little slow getting back to things.
Had some progress and good sucesses with my character head.

http://www.ramjac.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=37&pid=409#pid409

[MagicEgger]

Hey AVT…

Maya have a type of morphing which does this directly…
I learned How to this cascade effect in EIAS… but I dont remember now…
You can ask Matt H. we chatted about this… and he did a simple prj to me.
its simple to implement in EIAS.

Thanks

Tomas