If you are fine trying something else, you could try PaintTool SAI
Just look at these two videos and you will find something that can increase your productivity considering cartoon specific needs:
-the first video (7’35") shows you line creation process using vector line just like raster line (you can use vector for the most complicated curve and merge to raster at any moment)
-the second video (10’00") shows color filling process which is more effective than what is inside Photoshop at the moment (it is explained in the video). The video shows also an amazing way to control gradient especially good for cartoon work (technical demo here and there).
Now, I assume your Photoshop version will not be offended because I suggest you to try something else
From what I’ve found, in the past few weeks, Illustrator’s paint brush tool gives me the results I need; I paint a stroke, it averages is out, and leaves bezier controls on the stroke. That’s the quickest most integrated system I’ve found yet.
when you’re done making strokes you can choose one of the many ways to fill it. look below
Alt + click the “stroke path with brush” and you’ll see a menu pop up. don’t forget to test “simulate pressure”. really useful
It’s too bad Systemax is dead, would be amazing if they would continued SAI. Eitherway yeah Photoshop always had big issues with line work, it doesn’t have damp or a pressure curve for you to adjust so it’s really not optimal.
Do you have any info about that or is it just supposition based on the “old” latest release? Maybe their development cycle is more 36 months than the 18 months Photoshop standard.
I have seen also their site has been updated few times months ago adding english faq and editing the number of employee (from 1 to an unknown number). And their japanese forum has new posts everyday so I hope they are financially all right.
@workbench
Ok, I received a reply to the mail I sent when I read your post about Systemax and Koji Komatsu, the developer said he is still working on a new update (minor!) but with many improvements. That’s weird, it is just like he don’t want our money since minor updates are free
@Hecartha - weird?! ever heard know pixologic? 'till now, every update, upgrade, plugin… snippit’o’code has been free of charge for zbrush! i absolutely fell in love with SAI and i’m counting my trial days… happy to hear an update (minor) is coming to SAI. thanks for that information.
Oh cool nice to know that, I was talking to a japanese friend and he also thought SAI's development was dead since Koji hasn't replied in many months including on the official message board. Well a minor update? Geez, SAI is so minimal already, what's he doing all this time with SAI? Since 2007 SAI's only got minor updates, no new tools or anything like that, I only use SAI to sketch and often to do linework so it's not a major problem to me but would be cool if the program progressed or even a new version SAI 2 came out someday.
I forgot to say the developer has no idea when the update will be out…and I don’t think we will see it in the next six months anyway.
Yep but I mean it is not just about free update years after release, it is also about Systemax website. A cold official page with an unique ridiculous sreenshot without any kind of artwork, not any example of works done with SAI, no demonstration video…does he really want to sell his program?
When I compare with Manga Studio which is advertised by MySmithMicro using artwork done in Painter, there is a huge gap between the two methods .
Minor considering version number (1.2? 1.5?) I think, but I suppose that does not mean minor improvement since he was talking about “many improvements”.
Now that is true, SAI is minimal but it has with Photoshop the most advanced layer system (layer mask on layer/group of layers, clipping mask on layer and group of layer and integrated texture system per layer or group of layer). There is not any thousand of brushes with twenty brush categories but it gives a real control to transparency. It really works with layer since you can transform/correct color on any number of layers you want (how many programs can do that?). Navigator which can be used as thumb view for checking how details fit globally on your work in real time, multiple views, high performance which allows to work on the biggest and the most complicated illustrations, integrated texture system which avoid the user to use an overlay texture as final step and so on…and in the same time, no text tool, no script, no crazy filters, no circular selection tool (!)…Just my opinion but I will never exchange the mirror feature (just one example) by filters or even circular selection since I can deal easily without them (seriously, I use more the mirror than the rotatable view)…damn, I am too enthusiast about this program
About new features, Portus from conceptart.org asked months ago for a way to use a dark interface and the developer said him it will be done for the next release.
Apart from the “watercolor” blender I really don’t like the way brushes blend in SAI because you can’t set pressure for all the settings, I would want to be able to set the blenders like I do in Painter (bleed is usually set to ‘invert’) this allows for a more controlled blending/covering.
I don’t know about a dark interface, the developer usually says he’ll consider this or that suggestion and he’s always working hard on SAI but I’ll wait until I see them to believe. He does so little promotion I have to wonder about the strategy he’s taking with SAI, maybe to him SAI v1.1 is perfect for what he wanted to do.
I read the history.txt inside SAI directory and in fact, the last version has been released 15 months ago. Finally, the developer is not even late considering Photoshop development cycle (which is short).
That’s crazy, I had the feeling that was more than two years ago lol. And the version 1.0 was released 25 months ago.
Many improvement have been added between version 1.0 and 1.1 like the photoshop shortcut to combine/soustract/load selection using layer panel (it has been added at last in Painter 11...and in Painter 11, it is not able to load the selection from a layer using a layer mask...maybe it will be added in Painter 12), UI improvement -> click and drag for linking/hiding/showing layers in fast way, many keyboard shortcut entries has been added, layer/group isolation which I use everytime, floating panels and floating resizable navigator (huge improvement for me), transparent png support, 2 new composition modes and a merge visible layers option.
Just my opinion but that's pretty good for free updates. :)
PaintTool SAI does not work like Painter.
-In Painter, you have (for cover category) 3 settings that works together for blending: opacity, resaturation and bleed. All of these 3 settings can be controlled using pressure and the effect of the pressure can be inverted. There is not any special behavior if you paint on upper layer because we are forced to use the “pick up underlying color” feature.
-In PaintTool SAI, there is more settings but only two of them can be controlled using pressure: blending and density. The others parameters are minimum density, max density pressure, persistence and dilution. The max density pressure can be interesting since that changes the pressure curve for reaching the maximum density. One important setting is the dilution which has a special behavior depending on if you are painting on empty area or covered area. That is the main difference with Painter.
In Painter, you have not the choice, you can paint on wet canvas increasing bleeding, decreasing resaturation and opacity. You can paint on dry canvas decreasing bleeding and increasing resaturation. The main issue is, you cannot paint on dry canvas using wet paint. I mean, if you don't want any interaction between added brush strokes with the dry paint on canvas, that is simply impossible in Painter (in fact it is "possible" with drip brush category but drip brush cannot add pixel on empty layer).
In SAI, each layer is just like a layer of paint. All the paint on a layer will act like wet paint when working on this layer. Working on upper layer is like working on dry paint (the bottom layers). That gives a real control over your work because the blending can be precisely localized contrary to Painter where the blending is global. That is the reason why there is a button to send the layer content to bottom layer leaving the current layer empty which is equal to dry canvas. That is the SAI's workflow -> at least 2 layers, paint on upper layer and dry to continue painting...just like natural media.
The dilution combined to blend and persistence allows also blending with transparency. Dilution controls transparency and the wet effect combining layers. One of the benefit of such system is a better natural media emulation. The other benefit is every layer of paint is independent from others which means a maximum flexibility adjusting or transforming layers and an efficient system if a color correction is needed on few layers.
Now, if you really want to add details on wet paint, you can use multiple brushes at the same time. Just set a keyboard shortcut to the desired brushes and press and hold this shortcut and you will switch temporary to it and once the key released you will switch back to your previous brush...fast and efficient.
You seems sceptical about the developer but when I analyze his work on SAI, this guy is a genius. For a first major release, it is already possible to achieve this kind of rendering in a direct way (just painting). (remember it is shown at 50% of full size)
What kind of rendering you can expect using Painter, sketchbook pro (lol), ArtRage without using trick like overlay texture, using grain brush or stencil, just as many unnatural and indirect way to paint. SAI allows to work with textured paint since the first brush stroke to a more advanced work emulating the needed layers of paint which will combine naturally together obtaining the desired look. (still unfinished and the last layer of paint need to be added)
It is possible to start with first layer of paint which interacts with canvas texture and adding more layer of paint, the canvas texture will be covered by the randomness of pigment.
I am amazed by his work because everything is near to be perfect with only one release. Even though this image is far to be finished, there is actually 85 layers (it is not necessary to use such amount of layers but it gives me more flexibility and it does not change anything excepted of course than more memory is used) for a canvas using 4230x5346 pixels. Excepted Photoshop, no other program could use such a big file (canvas size+huge number of layers). Last time I checked sketchbook pro, a smaller file with less layers loaded forever in version 2009 and the program became unstable. In painter the navigation will slow down heavily and zooming in or zooming out will write on scratch disk because the lack of a proper memory system. Artrage will not be able to load the file or will crash just after (not tested version 3 since it is not possible to test it in real condition…thanks to developers). SAI just load the file in few seconds and the navigation is identical than using 500x500 pixels image with one layer. And every parts of the image is completely independent without hurting painterly rendering. That’s exceptional and it was possible because of reversible brushes that can add or remove paint using a simple shortcut.
Last year, people hesitated recommending SAI even for sketching, it was just good for quick cartoon sketches…today, there is an evolution, the program is exactly the same but it is now good for sketching and for watercolor emulation (trust me, I am not pointing your opinion, it is just what I read everywhere). Maybe next year, the same identical program will be good for real digital painting, who knows…and in two years it will be considered as a serious choice lol…seriously, I understand the developer, since we are not able to use the “limited” current features from his program, there is not any emergency to release a new version .
Sorry to bother you again with huge off topic post, I just posted that as general information. Maybe that will increase curiosity about a program that is not used by the crowd for what it has been made.
I use the marker brush + layer combo a lot and I like the finess of the brushes but I really miss features such as spacing, angle, jitter, continuos time deposition (like PS airtbrush or Painter), captured dabs, a blending option like nekoPaint that smudges and blends at the same time if you choose the “fine blending” option, also the selection tools are all contiguos, the brushes are all soft specially around the edges, you have four dabs but they are all soft! And most brushes look the same, it needs more variety, plain and simple, it’s just too bare bones and yes I like SAI for what it is but I can’t help to wish for more.
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