Sketchbook Thread of Cynical_Saint

#8

Thanks for the replies all!

@Holden: I have done the grid technique before, and basically that is what I do in my head. When I look at the reference, I imagine the mid-lines, and divide the picture up in my head. Unfortunately that doesn’t work so well for me. For some reason my brain just can’t see the difference between what is on the paper, and what I am looking at in the reference. Ugh… If I put grid lines on the reference image itself, I could do it, but I would rather not, that feels TOO much like tracing.

@Anandpg: Yeah, the shading and “ChiroSchiro” or however it is spelled, are definitely my stronger suits. I did take a couple classes a couple years ago and the emphasis was on using the full range of value in the sketches. Details are also stronger for me than the base contours. Its just that first darn step of getting the contours and outlines in proper proportion that is killing me. Its the very first step, and getting it wrong, will mess up the rest of the sketch.

@Rebeccak: I was hoping you would reply here. I browsed through some of the other SketchBooks and noticed that you are of great help to alot of people here.

I am kinda confused on how Master Works or Life Drawing will help in my particular problem. When I attempt to draw still lifes, or even very basic landscapes, the same issue comes up as the above portrait and anatomy drawings. The sizes, distances and proportions of the main shapes are always off. As an example I could look at my desk and see a monitor and two speakers. If I tried to draw the contours/shapes, what will happen is that the speaks might come out too big in comparison to the monitor, the spacing between the speakers and monitor will be wrong, etc… Same happens with the key features of a face or body. The nose ends up too big, or the chin is not far enough down, etc… If I can get the contours of a sketch correct, then I have no problem with the shapes or the shading. I can make a decent drawing. But generally when I draw without any measuring, my stuff comes out a little ‘Picasso’ since everything is out of proportion.

I am open to trying to work from Master Works, but I wanted to make sure you guys understand exactly what the problem is for me first.

Thanks again for replying.

#9

Hey there,

I am not trained in this method, but apparently it is one which is taught in the small ateliers which still teach the hard core fundamentals of traditional art. :slight_smile:

It’s called sight-size and there is an article on it here:

http://480bc.com/sight_size/sightsize.htm

Check it out and do a bit of research - I think that it may be directly addressing what you are looking for. :slight_smile:

With respect to my advice to do Master Copies, that is more of a general kind of advice that I would have because generally speaking, master copies will teach you much more of representing the figure in 3D than photo reference will - especially at first. It’s less to do with precisely copying an image than learning how to imbue a drawing with life - I think that maybe I’m saying you might be better off going down that path, than just trying to copy photos. There is nothing wrong with using photo reference at all - it’s only that I think that doing Master Copies is a better way to learn how to draw the figure generally. There is more to art sometimes than just accurately copying the model. :slight_smile:

#10

Hi…Cynical Saint…:slight_smile:

I like that last one…:thumbsup:
A great way to get everything right to start with, as far as spacial relationships go, is to think in terms of the abstact negitive space and shapes surrounding the forms of the figure or whatever it is that you are decribing on the flat two dementional picture plane.When you simplify the shapes,…they resemble pieces of a puzzle…just make the negitive pieces of the puzzle the correct size and shape, and everything will fall into it’s proper place, just like a puzzle…:slight_smile: …If you get the first piece of the negative space, or puzzle piece right, then it is impossible for the other puzzle shapes to not line up correctly…:scream:
The same thing applies when you are working within the figure or whatever it is you are decribing…it’s all an illussion of negative space and shapes given volume through values creatined with shadeing and lighting …:slight_smile:
Hope that helped some…really looking forward to seeing your first master copy…:thumbsup: :slight_smile:
TAKE CARE
Glenn

#11

Took your advice and started on the Anatomy Lesson,

Started of course with head 01 Head of ‘Water’.

Had to start over about 10 times, cause the contours were not coming out right, as always.

Finally got it ‘close’ by doing a rough shape outline of the head first, then drawing the true shapes over that outline.

Shading came out pretty bad because I used a much smaller sketchpad. (This pic is about life size)

#12

Been a while since I posted anything new, and I dont have alot to show today.

I started a figure drawing class a few weeks ago, and am struggling with being forced to use techniques and media that I am not used to. My teacher unfortunately hates Charcoal, so I dont get to use the one media I am slightly proficient at.

Below is a hand study I did (We have to do 99 total studies this semester, 33 Hands/Feet/Heads). This is using Conté (which I have never touched) and Hatching/Cross-Contour (which I have never done). However, I am kinda happy with how the second hand (on the right) came out. Course the ugly dis-proportionate one over top of it kinda ruins it. heh

Will post a couple of my self portraits when I get them back from grading.

#13

Some new stuff.

Another hand study, conté - lifesize

Foot/Hand study, conté - lifesize

Now some self portraits:

This is a quick sketch (5 mins) using Conté and cross contouring.

This is a Bigger than lifesize graphite ~2hours

This is my second big portrait bigger than lifesize, graphite ~3.5hours

Two more big self portraits to come, as soon as I get them back from grading.

As for the hand/feet studies, I have been learning cross contouring, but I still fail to see how I can translate this technique into a realistic drawing. I love how it gives volume to the hands/feet, and I like the style of the first selfportrait, but I prefer smooth blended drawings, so I have trouble when I am asked to hatch.

The two large self portraits are basically my first two self portraits I have ever done. I struggled with the graphite as it is not as easy to work as charcoal is, but I was starting to get the hang of it when we moved on to conté.

Next I will have two bigger than lifesize self portraits, one done in all black conté, and another done with white conté on black paper.

Until then, any comments/crits appreciated.

#14

The main reason for doing these cross-contouring exercises would be to learn to think 3D while drawing a subject. One must think 3D and transpond the 3D distances into a 2D canvas. For example, the distance of an ear to a nose in a 3/4 view of a head may appear longer in 3D than it actually is to be drawn on a 2D sheet.

That’s basically what SpiritDreamer said earlier :slight_smile:

A great exercise to train this is drawing a square on the floor (or putting a square shaped carpet on the floor), then sit at a few meters distance and draw it. Change position several times and draw it again (without shading). Perspective comes in play here. See my sketchbook thread for more details.

Furthermore i can say that accuracy comes with practice. Do you know that awkward feeling you get when you draw someting, put it aside for a day and then look at it again compared to the real subject… realizing you were so inaccurate? It’s something that occures to all of us I’m afraid and the only cure for it is to draw more more more :slight_smile:

btw, i really like the head nr1 from the anatomy challenge and the fact that you actually tried over and over again until you got a reasonable result, rather than spending hours on a single study trying to fix and fix within the same drawing!

Looking forward to see more drawings Cynical_Saint!

#15

Johan,

Thanks for the reply! I was getting a bit frustrated at the lack of response, even tho I know there are 100s of these Sketchbook threads around.

Actually like the contour drawings. It does give a good feeling of 3d space to the drawings. Funny enough, I spent like a total of 5 or 6 hours on the two big self portraits at bottom, but actually prefer the 5min one for artistic quality.

Another thing about it, is that generally “sketches” take really long for me. I usually spend a good couple hours on any sketch I do, but that first self portrait was a true sketch that came out fairly good after only 5 mins.

#16

A great way to practice is to do some quick shading sketches (5-10min), say 8-10 of those, and then do one or two longer studies. focus should be on the values… try to find the parts of a subject that have the same value and shade those on your paper… find a different value on all possible locations and shade that too…
This way you would be building up your drawing in shades instead of lines and not rely on the contours of your subject too much. Ofcourse you can draw a very quick and light line sketch first to get a bit of a decent composition, but don’t spend more than 2-3min on it
(even if it’s a longer study)

I do think you would benefit a great deal from doing some line drawings for a while though. Thinking about where to put your lines before actually placing them on the paper helps improve your observational skills ( see 3seconds - draw one line, see 3 secs - draw one line, etc).

Try to be economical when doing these line studies and forget about shading.

whichever way you choose to go… looking forward to see your progress.

oh and Cynical_Saint, the best way to get people commenting on your thread is to check their thread and do the same :wink:

#17

Well progress continues in my Figure Drawing class.

I rcvd back my two latest Self Portraits, and started a new technique/media.

This last couple weeks we worked in White Conté on Black Paper. This actually works out pretty good for me, I like the way my drawings came out.

Unfortunately, as soon as I start to slightly get the hang of something, we change media again. Now we are working on “Heightened Drawing”, meaning we are using Black, White and Red Conté. This new one frustrates the hell out of me, and I simply am not advancing in this technique. Luckily we do not have to do any major projects in this media.

Ok Show and Tell time.

This first piece is a black Conté self-portrait, bigger than life size. With this piece, I have achieved a really good likeness (Wish I had a pic to show you), but again the one thing that detracts from this piece is that the head is too small for the arm and torso. :frowning: Funny thing is that I kinda stopped concentrating on getting a good likeness, and it came all by itself. (Methinks perhaps it is just luck). In any case, I love this drawing because the likeness is great, but I hate it because of the proportion of the head. Ugh, always give and take aint it?

This next piece is basically my first attempt with White Conté on black paper, in preparation for a Self Portrait using the same technique. I like the effect this media gives you, and it seems to suit me. Down-sides to this piece are the value scale is not nearly wide enough in the lit areas. Also, it kinda looks like a death mask. heh. The model was asleep, but the sketch looks more like she is dead. hehe. This was about a 45 minute study from a live model. (P.S. It looks nothing like her :()

This last one is the Self Portrait that followed. The likeness is actually pretty good, and the value scale feels really good to me. I REALLY like this piece, cept for the fact that for some reason everything under my nose seems to be drooping. Really kinda ruins the piece. Again this is a love/hate. I love the lighting and texture this technique creates, but the droopy mouth/chin really ruin it.

As always comments are immensly appreciated.

My next project, that I am doing this weekend, is a Master Study. I was assigned Ingres, and am using a sketch of The Reverend Church. I have to ‘change’ it somehow tho. So I think I am going to change the environment he is in. The actual figure has to look ‘exactly’ like the original, but the background needs to change somehow. Wish me luck!

#18

So here is the Master Copy I had to do for class.

It is:

Ingres, The Reverend Joseph Church

Done in charcoal.

Unfortunately, it was a requirement of the assignement that we totally F^%k the thing up by “copyiny the figure as exact as possible, then changing the environment”. So while it only took me about 2 hours to do the Figure, it took me a good 3 hours to come up with a non repulsive idea for the background. As you can see, I had no luck. I wish my prof would have just let us do a Master Copy, and not fool with it.

In any case, the head came out wrong in a few places (forehead, nose), but the clothing came out quite good IMO. This assignment could have come out worse I suppose.

Anyways, here it is (with the original inset)

#19

Very worthwhile exercise. :slight_smile: I think it’s quite hard to replicate Ingres’ very precise lines however in charcoal - for copying his work I really recommend using a very sharp, soft pencil where you can get a variety of line widths and a precise stroke.

Keep posting!

#20

True enough. A fact I learned while doing this excercise.

I chose to use charcoal, because I am more more versed with its use, and prefer it to graphite. However in this type of sketch, I know now that graphite would have been much easier with a much better result.

Thanks for the comment

#21

You’re welcome - I would encourage anyone to do as many master copies as possible, they’re fantastic learning exercises throughout one’s career. Hope to see more of them. :slight_smile:

#22

So for the last couple of weeks in my Figure Drawing class, we have been working with a skeleton. This is mostly due to lack of funding for enough models.

I have found that I have much less trouble with skeletons. As I have said before, my main goal is to learn to draw “perfect” proportion and shaping. Secondary goal is to get better with texture/shading. With skeletons, it is much easier to determine the positions of key points, because there are some many more details to look at and compare. With a face, skin kind of smooths out all of the details, so I have trouble getting every feature to look right and proportional.

However with this new subject, I ran into the same problem I have before. This teacher refuses to stick with one thing at a time. We were required to complete four drawings. Two of them are full skeleton, and two are closeups. Problem is, she didn’t stop there. She required us to do heightened drawing in conté for two of them, and two drawings in pencil with inkwash over the top. I would have prefered to just concentrate on drawing skeletons, and not struggling with media.

Now in the case of all four drawings, I felt fairly good about my initial drawing, but adding media that I am not confident with on top of it, the final results were disappointing for me.

Anyway, I finished the four drawings early, so the last day I worked on just a sketch of a skull. No ruining it by putting ink or conté on top.

Comments/critiques are welcome as always.

This is my 3rd skull ever, done in graphite with charcoal for shading.

EDIT: Slight sharpening done in Photoshop.

#23

very well done, i like the one with the black background and white chalk there really nice. Keept it up.

#24

nice work on the self portrait Cynical_Saint
good use of light there

I like your Ingres study too.

Your eye for proportion and values will get better with every drawing you make, so consistency is really the key imho…

Keep studying!

#25

hasse32: Thanks. That is actually my favorite piece thus far, cept the bottom portion of the face is too low and too angled. I really like the white conté on black paper. It seems more logical because instead of adding in ‘the lack of light’ with a dark media, you are adding in light with the white conté. (That made more sense in my head, heh)

NR43: Thanks again. Yeah I really think my eye for proportion is growing fairly well. The main difference I am noticing is that instead of it taking me an hour to get down the initial sketch because of proportion issues, it is only taking me like 30 mins now. Also like I said, drawing skulls which have alot more point to point reference, is much easier than a face where all those points are kind of smoothed over with light reflecting/refracting skin.

#26

Final project time for my Figure drawing class. Think these are actually a decent improvement from when I started, although of course I am never satisfied.

They are all done in life size or larger, and in Charcoal.

Any comments/crits would be appreciated.

Theme: These are all done from photos of me as I grew up (Last one is actually my dad).

None of them look “Exactly” like the photo, which was my goal, but the one of my Father is the closest.





#27

I get feedback from my teacher today, but she has ulterior motives (she can’t be too harsh as she wants to motivate me).

I would love to get some feedback from some of you guys here on the above 5 drawings, opinions I can trust.

Here are the reference shots if it helps: