Siggraph is here... what about R25 news?


That’s just an error on the website, and it should be corrected by tomorrow morning. If you click the Buy link the product being added is R25 - the web team just missed a field where the version needed to be changed. Because of the way the website is hosted the fixes unfortunately don’t roll out immediately.

And yes, there’s pricing to upgrade from R23 to R25, and from any prior release to R25 as well. For that, you’ll need to contact sales or your local reseller.


I didn’t think you could go from Perpetual R20 to R23? I thought it had to switch to a subscription?

I’m confused. I thought the perpetual licenses went away after R21? But I just looked at Toolfarm and it said an upgrade from R20 to R25 is $999. Is that correct?

Edit: Went to Toolfarm this morning to order and they had raised the price of any version below R23 to $1999. That’s Ok. I can wait for the next version. But I was ready to finally pull the trigger.

2nd Edit: Just checked and it went up another $100. Now it’s $2099. Crazy!


Wow Maxon. Of all the cool shit that could have been added, this is what you went with? REALLY?

I’d offer some suggestions, but it’s obvious it’d fall on deaf ears.


I didn’t upgrade in that sense. I stayed with R20 when R21 and subs came out. I didn’t see any benefit in a new iteration until R23, and so I just started a ‘new’ subscription. I still retain my R20 perpetual licence.

And if you can seriously upgrade from R20 to R25 perpetual for $999, I’d jump on it!


The recent updates have been really lacking.

I love C4D and am working with it since V8.5(V6SE) but the current trend isn’t looking that promising.

Scene Nodes are nice and all but with the current speed of development it will be an other 2-3 years until they are fully integrated. In the meantime C4D is still lacking heavily in even more departments than it used to.

  • Modern particles system: nonexistent
  • advanced sim tools (smoke, water etc.) not there
  • integrated state of the art renderer: when was the last decent update to the build-in renderers? They only removed ProRender…
  • innovative tech: C4D used to have some really unique tech like Bodypaint, ProjectionMan, MoGraph. When was the last time they introduced something that really made you drop your yaw? It looks more like cathing up on all fronts…

But we get an other UI Update… it’s nice and all but it feels like it is updated to often recently and you have to relearn stuff. It’s not a good thing since if you have to relearn stuff you can just as easily relearn a new package like Blender or Houdini.

And I find the marketing in the recent releases really lacking and they emphasize totally wrong and unimportant things.


Perpetuals are still available, Maxon just hides the upgrade paths. I have a Perpetual R23, and apparently you can still get a Perpetual R25.
I can’t say anything about the quoted price though, as I only know what I paid for the upgrade R21 to 23. If that is real, it’s really a good offer.


I just enquired about upgrading my R20 perpetual to R23 (no longer possible) or R25. It’s £1699+VAT in the UK, so that $999 figure is presumably an error, unfortunately.


Maybe place an order here and see what happens:

It seems to be offering £799+VAT.

Yes - looking at that again, I think that is a mistake - the lower price (£799) is listed as being R20/R21 - I think that should be R23/R24. and they’ve not updated it. Might be worth placing an order and seeing if you can hold them to it : )


I was more impressed by Chris Schmidt’s videos - Maxon didn’t do a great job pointing out the new stuff (or neat stuff in service packs part of very stealthy updates), but his explanations and enthusiasm are really appreciated.

Some new features may not be aimed at my wants and needs, but I was significantly more impressed. The time track modifiers were very neat.


To be honest, the “node capsules” do look interesting, sort of “home made” plugin and primitives, but they’re probably too technical for most people to really make good use of it or see what they could actually do with it.

EJ Hassenfratz doesn’t even mention them in his video. Maybe Chris Schmidt would be able to showcase how powerful this is, but it certainly isn’t for everyone.


I highly suggest watching Chris’ vid. Nodes and capsules look very interesting now. I don’t think I’m skilled enough to know where it could be of use to me.

Chris is wicked smart and his mind moves faster than mine.


Chris’s video certainly shows R25 in a better light. The capsules and new nodes really look powerful… for technical artists.


Nothing new for me here…looks like I’m going to save a lot of money again sticking with R21 and Houdini.


I found it interesting that is why i posted about it before.
Still what was shown was very limited, calling powerful seems a bit of overstretch.


Last year, 2 versions back could upgrade for the base price (130000 yen here in JP), more than 2 versions back was a little over double that.
This year, 1 version back for the base upgrade, 2 versions back more than doubles this price.
Seriously what is behind the animosity toward perpetual license holders? On top of the upfront cost of a perpetual, our upgrades are substantially more expensive, we lose access to Cineversity (losing access to important plugins like SWIM) and are denied the S updates. I realise that while enterprise customers like the tax relief afforded by subscriptions, it is not a meaningful benefit for freelancers. With no Indie tier Cinema offers just about the worst value for freelancers in the industry. R21 is not going to remain useful forever but for substantially less than upgrading my perpetual C4d license, I can upgrade my perpetual indie license of Clarisse and regular perpetual license of Modo, with change for a year of Indie Maya and a year of Indie Houdini.
Buying up Redshift and RedGiant etc is not going to save Maxon from where this is going.



If C4D and Cineversity plugins were as important to my business as it appears it is for yours then I’d swallow getting a subscription. But I’d damn well make sure any IP I generated with it was exported in a way that I could use it should I no longer use C4D.

If Maxon had addressed the (decade) long standing issue of object management performance and lack of professional level caching then I would still be using C4D, as much as I despise subscriptions I’d probably be signed up right now! But they haven’t and there doesn’t look like there’s any light at the end of those tunnels. If Maxon can fix those two massive performance bottlenecks C4D could become a truly spectacular application again but the longer it takes to sort the issues out will mean many more people will have drifted away…for good.

A very light R release may well be part of the overall planned ‘animosity’ towards Perpetual Licences. If I were a betting man I’d expect the S release to be a lot bigger. If this pattern repeats over a couple more years you can take it as read this is a business decision to push more towards Subscriptions. I predicted this would happen in the original Subscriptions thread that’s now deleted.

Quite a large proportion of the C4D userbase could be accurately described as ‘Indie’ so if they offered an Indie license McGavran would be in danger of being hauled in front of the board to explain why C4D income has plummeted overnight. Sadly, I don’t think an Indie license that is usable for professional work like Houdini’s is ever going to happen but if it did it would be next to useless or aimed at hobbyists (nothing wrong with that BTW!).

Maxon’s earnings are higher than they’ve ever been and buying Redshift and RedGiant has diversified Maxon’s income away from a reliance on C4D users so if C4D does do a Lightwave Maxon will still coin in the moolah with RS and RG.