Siggraph is here... what about R25 news?


There have been some pretty poor updates to c4d over the years, but this takes the biscuit. What a total let down.


Well, what beautiful timing. I had to pay my annual sub a week ago, before this ‘update’. Of course I get to play with C4D for another year (and who knows what S26 might bring) but Holy Jeebus this is a smack in the chops. Whats new? Sweet FA is what’s new. A new UI (who asked for that?) and some motion tweaking graph thingy. That’s. It.

Honestly, if I’d known this was coming I’d have held onto my £550. In fact I wonder if it’s too late for a refund because this is grade A bullshit. There’s simply no point me downloading this because it will presumably just mess with my collection of plugins. What an absolute crock.

Thanks Adobe Dave, your work here is done.

EDIT: Refund requested. Now to get Octane working in Blender.


Did you any of you see the live Maxon presentation? Oh My…

The quality of the presentation was as low and as amateur as I have seen. None of the Maxon presenters had anything more than a potato camera and all sounded like their mics were made from bake bean tins and string. There was absolutely no expense used in this production.

The showreel they had on loop looked tired, check out a Houdini Mograph showreel from SideFX and see where the state of art is. There’s a reason why Houdini is becoming synonymous with Mograph.

The big thing for me was the obvious shift away from C4D as being the lead product and it’s now Maxon One as the main product they’re pushing.

I can say I feel for you. It must be gutting.


Yeah, talk about low rent. McGavran couldn’t even be arsed to put up a poster.

I’ve felt this coming for a few years, but now I’m really sad and angry. Feel like my days with C4D are coming to a close because of some penny-pinching Yank with zero passion or vision, expect for dollar signs. I’ve spent a small fortune on plugins (including a recent renewal of X-Particles), so I’m hoping I can at least roll back to my previous perpetual version and use that until I’m kicked out of Maxon’s crappy ecosystem for good. (And, frankly, if it’s R21 or R22 it wouldn’t make a whole heap of difference, given the last few years’ piss-poor updates.)


For once Maxon is listening to you and making it easier to transition to Blender with their new UI and you’re still not happy?

What else do you want? What more can they do to support the competition?

Redshift RT sounds interesting… but it’s still beta and who knows if it’s going to cost extra when it’s ready.

In any case, it looks like I’ll save another 600 euros or so this year. Let’s see how long R21 can serve me…


R25 is where me and C4D part ways. After 20+ years.
Whoever calls the shots at Maxon these days, does not know what the F they are doing.

I can squeeze perhaps another year out of R23 - But will be taking my business elsewhere for the future.


Hey Eric are you on R21 perpetual? Do you avoid paying the sub – I need to rollback if that’s the case.


Yes R21 perpetual. The toolset is enough for my needs, it plays nice with unreal, it’s costing me as much as Blender and I don’t need to relearn everything.

I was still open to add a subscription on top of my perpetual license to stay current if anything big had materialized (new object manager, new integrated renderer, new particles etc…)… but even with an open mind this one looks like a joke.


Sorry to ask but how do you do it, just download it from Do you need to do anything to keep it licensed?

No need for an open mind. It is definitely a joke.

EDIT: There’s actually very little of interest (to me) in R23/S24/R25 that isn’t already in R21. Rolling back won’t be an issue at all!


Capsules( Nodes in Object managers) are okay.
Other than that i did not see anything that have been added to consider this a whole digit release. 24.1.


@Darth_Mole : I installed it when it released… that’s all. Do you have a perpetual license? If you’ve traded it for a cheaper subscription, then you may not be able to go back. I’m not sure how it would all work for you.

@bullit: I need to have a look at the node capsules… I haven’t seen anything about it yet.

Is there any demo of Redshift RT yet?


I was on perpetual licenses/MSAs until it changed to annual subs, last year I think? I’ve definitely paid enough money to deserve a perpetual license.


Unfortunately ‘deserve’ means nothing to Maxon. If you converted your perpetual licence to subscription, you’re screwed. You gave up your perpetual licence for a subs licence.

I’m in the same situation as Eric - I remained on R21 perpetual, and am very glad I did. I’ll probably use it until I can’t, then move on.


I like working in C4d, but I don’t know if I can continue to have it as a hobby since my career requires less and less motion graphics. I don’t think I’ll be renewing my sub - I’ll have R21 to fall back on. I’ll be missing out on those sweet UV updates that came later.

I"ll explore blender more deeply in the mean time. Cycles X flies on my 2070 super.

The good news is that If I just can’t stand blender, I can restart my subscription at any time for the same cost, no more FOMO. Perhaps I’ll wait and see what s26 brings and take another look. Perhaps I’ll try R25 for a month.

I was hoping R25 would bring a one GPU Redshift license included or at least Redshift RT included (not an open beta) as it reminds me of eevee. That would be all I need - a real time (ish) engine that translates to full redshift when needed.

I’ve been weighing it for some time. I have a 16 core Ryzen system that I was considering getting Corona C4d for, then I managed to win a Newegg 3080TI - which was DOA and had to be returned. So I’m stuck with a single 2070 super for GPU based renders and no GPU’s in sight.

C4d is in the awkward position of not really being fast at CPU rendering without additional cost, and having no built in GPU solution. I’m sure I could optimize physical to run pretty fast - but why bother investing time into learning nodes and such on an old engine with no more active development? Corona is faster. Redshift is faster. Both are yet more $$$.

Ah well, those are my ramblings.


Terrific – being penalised for giving Maxon more money. Just gets better and better.


Well… R25 is sooo bad release… Whoever makes С4D roadmap is completely out of reality and modern needs. And they still didn’t fix a confirmed bug with Normal Scale (going from R22 release…) - there’s no love at all for C4D modelers…


I spend most days working in a mixture of 4 Apps, Houdini, Blender, QGIS and Krita using a Workstation running Linux. Three of these Apps I could use for absolutely nothing, Houdini I paid for several years ago and haven’t needed to spend a penny since. I don’t use these Apps because I’m poor I use them because they meet every one of my production needs but as a bonus I do get a great sense of enjoyment knowing there’s no greedy bastard involved.

I contribute/donate to QGIS, Krita and Blender development funds, no one has ever asked me to other than a polite suggestion to donate in or around a download page. I do this more than willingly as I know the money gets put directly into software development, there are no shareholders’ pockets to fill but there are people coding these amazing tools that are as passionate about developing them as I am in using them.

As a consequence I have a very different relationship with the software I use nowadays, passionate developers breed passionate users. I no longer feel like I’m paying for software but rather saying thank you for the continued development which time and time again exceeds my expectations. They all do this on a shoestring, Blender for instance has less fulltime developers than Maxon has developer vacancies, think about that, yet time and again they deliver huge updates. 3.0 will be an enormous release with new renderer, asset library, Geometry Nodes Fields system and huge numbers of performance optimisations. QGIS too will also have a massive update later this year.

Blender should never be able to be compared with C4D, QGIS should never be able to compete with ArcGIS but they do and in some cases they’re better. When you spend time in the open source community you see the software differently, as huge community projects that not only produce high quality tools but also giving opportunities to young developers to cut their teeth on real professional software or technical author writing documentation, there are so many more benefits to the existence of open source software than the software itself. I must admit until I used Blender seriously I just used to think of it as an idiosyncratic oddball application for poor people. I completely missed the bigger picture.

If you’re pissed off by today’s R25 announcement maybe swing by and have another look at Blender. By using Blender, contributing your time in the community, suggesting improvements, making improvements if you’re a programmer, making addons, donating to the development fund you will be actively involved in making Blender better for everyone.

Maxon will very likely announce record income/profits at the end of this financial year, cui bono?


Not just me that’s underwhelmed again then huh?

My last perpetual is R20. I still use it today, but last year I saw the benefit in R23, as I’ve been doing a lot of character animation lately, so took the subs route - works out roughly the same price as the previous years of MSA, but with the downside that if I don’t renew, I’ll lose all the new tools of R23/S24 (the former being the important one)

So up trots R25, with literally nothing of any real significant importance to offer me! But, I’ll still need to renew to keep the R23 tools at my disposal. Perpetuals (still) for the win folks.


It was. Only when obtuse silliness stopped and market forces were accepted things improved.
I am only starting but they could have got me years ago at Softimage demise time.


The elephant in the room is that you cannot upgrade to a perpetual R25. Look at the Maxon buy perpetual page, it is only for R23!!
Also, it is guaranteed that R25 will break every plugin, so there is that cost too. If not to the user, then for the plugin dev. Maxon’s treatment of perpetual license holders in the transition to subscription seems worse than any other company I have dealt with, certainly worse than Autodesk and Adobe.
The greed and contempt towards its long term customer base will not be forgotten.