OK KidMesh and Madkarma…I have high props to you for being ambitous and taking a project that is of an amazing calliber. I was modelling for the team, and received some good pointers from Madkarma…BUT, this project was a little too ambitous in my opinion? I mean, what do you expect - something from Pixar? AND, CGI takes a LONG time as everyone knows, and this project only lasted a few months I suppose if that long from what it seemed to me… This project could have happened, but without any deadlines (I never had any at all or saw or heard any) nothing was going to go anywhere, and well it really didnt seeing as how the project collapsed. Now KidMesh, with all respect - insulting other artists “skill level” is the same has you having no skill level at all. Yes, CGI is an ART, insulting someone’s modelling technique or of the like is completely unprofessional. To quote you KidMesh, "Even the people who lied to me saying that they had “X” skill and it proved that it looked like they just opened “X” 3D application for the first time, I still let it slide."
-You know, more power to the people who did that! I commend them for trying to learn a program and perhaps get some help from some talented artists; accusing them of lying is just immature in my honest opinion. This was also a, let me emphasize this - NON PAYING project. YOU asked for help from everyone else, sorry it didnt go your way that quickly. And YES, it is YOUR project, if you want it to succeed, you will do more work probably 10 fold everyone else on the team, thats what a “leader” does. To quote KidMesh one last time,
-“Then it dawned on me that this sh!t was crazy and defintely not worthy my valuable time.” Well, if its not worth your time, then its defintalely not going to be worth my time or anyone elses… There is no hard feelings meant in this, just stating my comments on KidMeshes letter that sounds very unproffesional in my opinion…Thanks
[Short Film] - Project I.C.E [Celshaded Science Fiction Project]
At any rate, all is not lost. If this project is truely finished (as it seems to be since KidMesh has not responded to me at all), then those of you get to count it as a growth experience.
Everytime you push a mouse, you learn something new or get faster.
Darkskills, I gotta say, i really like the celshaded stuff (if that was you). It turned out great looking.
And b00bie, I still got L.E. on my MP3… it keeps me amped at work. Have you got a version without the I.C.E. sound FX that I can crank?
crank? whats that? sry my poor english x) but… thx 
glad u like it … yea i´ll remix it and soon it will be on my personal homepage … then i send u the info on pm
Sorry, I forget sometimes that the things we say over here may not make too much sense elsewhere.
‘crank’ = ‘crank it up’… making it as loud as possible… put headphones on and turn the knob all the way up.
Definitely let me know when it’s uploaded!
Hey ICE team, heard about your plight from one of our team mates. I haven’t read all the issues, but fact that you had so many talented artists join so quickly (and from the looks of it still more are requesting to join even with your setbacks) suggests that the collab spirit has really been growing in here…don’t set it back with quibbling over who did/said what…reorganize and get back to it. 
I could not have said it better then softdistortion.
And i was the one he talked to becouse i was thinking i might
hop on over to a long running project.
But i wont… not while we are all still in battle mode.
Lets just see if we can come up with a story that fits our work in and move on with production.
I keep hearing about the quality of the work being to high or to low.
And that the ambition or quality are to high…
Ok… lets create a 20 sec movie about a box that meets a ball and they have cute little cylinders.
And we need to cell shade it or it wont be manga.
I like it to be the best we can do and not something
that is easy or fits the skills of a beginner.
It was never ment to be a project for beginners wich doesnt
mean they can’t join or participate.
But realisticly beginners should also forget about modeling the
main character or space ship, it’s not gonna happen.
They are welcome to help design and develop it in every other way.
I dont know if you all remember the animation in killbill but that was anime aswell and no cellshading.
I like to do manga/anime (what ever bakes your cookies) but something a bit original.
That’s the spirit!
If I may offer a suggestion that works for us and might also work for you guys in your position>
As Madkarma suggests, create a story that works with what you already have done, then build that around whatever models your members actually finish and submit in the future.
For our project, whatever gets finished and submitted becomes part of the story. Instead of telling people do such and such a quality we say “do your best…the quality you achieve decides if the model is used in forground, mid or background”.
We realized we had to do it this way to move ahead, so now anyone can model anything they want…If they finish, it gets written in…if it’s a really good model, it gets written in as a featured character etc…It’s unorthodox, but it works… Also, this way you won’t end up frustrated by trying to get things you already wrote into the story modelled…especially when you will get some who start and then don’t finish things.
OK KidMesh and Madkarma…I have high props to you for being ambitous and taking a project that is of an amazing calliber. I was modelling for the team, and received some good pointers from Madkarma…BUT, this project was a little too ambitous in my opinion?
:shrug: [font="]The above comment makes absolutely no sense whatsoever; unfortunately when I'm done it will be obvious to some that you and most of the team that feels like you do were never on the same page as madkarma or myself.
[/font]
I mean, what do you expect - something from Pixar? AND, CGI takes a LONG time as everyone knows, and this project only lasted a few months I suppose if that long from what it seemed to me… This project could have happened, but without any deadlines (I never had any at all or saw or heard any) nothing was going to go anywhere, and well it really didnt seeing as how the project collapsed.
:rolleyes: [font="]Again, another example of being on the wrong page. And if you werent aware of any deadlines again you never read the private forums, which is the sign of someone that is not totally vested in the cause. (sigh) I really dont know why Im responding to this.
[/font]
Now KidMesh, with all respect - insulting other artists “skill level” is the same has you having no skill level at all.
[font="]Im going to assume that Im either misreading this or you dont know what the hell youre talking about. Maybe I will leave it alone but I know my modeling and animation skills arent coming into question here...you have no idea who I am or what I do, where is this even coming from. (sigh) Again...why am I even bothering.
[/font]
Yes, CGI is an ART, insulting someone’s modelling technique or of the like is completely unprofessional. To quote you KidMesh, “[color=DarkOrange]Even the people who lied to me saying that they had “X” skill and it proved that it looked like they just opened “X” 3D application for the first time, I still let it slide.” [/color]
[font="]Listen kid, It’s unfortunate that you dont even begin to come close to understanding the nature behind managing a project nor seemingly having the foresight to read simple text. Nowhere is it stated by me in any manner that some artist skill is being insulted. It is what it is, we attracted a lot of beginner level artist and I was cool with that. What I didnt like is being lied to as to gain a foot hold of entry to the project, yet again I let that slide. I for one am for growth of an individual in all aspects, lying is just something else. So as for that being unprofessional, it seems you may lack “real” world experience in the areas of resource assessment.
[b]
[/b][/font]
-You know, more power to the people who did that! I commend them for trying to learn a program and perhaps get some help from some talented artists; accusing them of lying is just immature in my honest opinion.
:rolleyes: [color=White]I addressed this...
[/color]
This was also a, let me emphasize this - NON PAYING project. YOU asked for help from everyone else, sorry it didnt go your way that quickly. And YES, it is YOUR project, if you want it to succeed, you will do more work probably 10 fold everyone else on the team, thats what a “leader” does.
At least you got part of that correct because I did do 10 fold and then some, but why you need to emphasis that this was a non-paying project is beyond comprehension at this point. Is there something you were trying to say here because really it got lost in translation for me?
To quote KidMesh one last time,
-“Then it dawned on me that this sh!t was crazy and defintely not worthy my valuable time.” Well, if its not worth your time, then its defintalely not going to be worth my time or anyone elses… There is no hard feelings meant in this, just stating my comments on KidMeshes letter that sounds very unproffesional in my opinion…Thanks
Let me see if we can get the context of that quote correct since you left out the why and what leading up to that comment.
I said...
The truth about the whole project is in the private ICE forums, within those HTML walls are the written truths about what I have spoke of here. See, I could make that public so that everyone can see how many freakin times I had to plead with people to just do something and pleading with folks to at least show up to a scheduled meeting. Then it dawned on me that this sh!t was crazy and defintely not worthy my valuable time.
But its ok, it's obvious to me what is going here...I think. I mean there are just some people that feel like they need to circle the wagon if you know what I mean and by all means circle it. But honestly it useless because Im not in the wagon, yet I find it odd that someone who contributed basically nothing decided to come and attack me. As in life I have learned not to become too surprised by people or situations, thats why we live and learn.
As a professional courtesy I feel that I need to come clean, I didnt want to go here because I believe in keeping things in house (private). I also chose in the beginning to take the rap on the nose for the project and let the outside walk away with whatever perceived notion that they would. But it seems that the circling of the wagon will continue (sigh).
Some individuals that were involved on the team and some that were watching from the outside have hit on the same thing "[b]The scale and ambitious nature of this project[/b]". Yes from the outside it would seem like a daunting and high level task to achieve. Yes it would seem like we bite off more than we could chew. But I wanted to save not really the team but myself the embarrassment of what Im going to release now.
Project ICE was definitely growing into a "[b]monster[/b]" albeit a controlled one though. Madkarma and I grew this monster and we knew exactly what we were doing. Believe it or not it was more under control than one may want to believe. From the management side, communication, realized goals and over all professional eiquette was never an issue.
Yet the task at hand was two fold, herein lies the issue and cause of dismal on my part. The first task[b] (the embarrassing part)[/b] was to create a small "[b]proof of concept[/b]" demo. A quick under 2 minutes demonstration of the CG talent that the assembled team had, for the team it would serve as a guide post of the look and feel for the final film let alone an indicator of missing or lacking resources. On the management side Madkarma and I were preparing to pitch our contacts that we both have for funding. What isn't known is the business side that took up alot of time as well, getting the ground work in place that was needed to successfully pitch the project to the sources we were in contact with.
With the help of past clients and collagues Madkarma and I were able to line up potential investors. See the funny thing is, when you join a project you have no idea who the person is on the other side or who they know. My goal was to see if I could find some talent here along with good work ethics that we could send a NDA to in the near future. So all the proof of concept was was merely a undisclosed talent search. In hindsight this proably was the wrong approach because for me valuable time has been wasted already.
We purposely decided not to release this information because I myself wanted to see the true nature of the individuals involved. I didnt want to find out later the downside of their work ethics and habits after money has changed hands. As far as Madkaram and I was concerned, if you couldnt attend online meetings, post WIP shots of the stuff we assigned you and overall general interest then we had no desire to pursue that person professionally.
Now before you begin to jump to conclusions whatever they maybe just keep this in the back of your head. All I ever asked was that we complete a proof of concept, and all it consisted of was this:
[color=Lime][b] 1-char ( 3D )
1-weapon [/b][/color][color=Lime][b]( 3D )[/b][/color]
[color=Lime][b] 1-monster [/b][/color][color=Lime][b]( 3D )[/b][/color]
[color=Lime][b] 1-robot [/b][/color][color=Lime][b]( 3D )[/b][/color]
[color=Lime][b] 1-interior ( room ) [/b][/color][color=Lime][b]( 3D )[/b][/color]
[color=Lime][b] 1-extrior ( entrance ) [/b][/color][color=Lime][b]( 3D )[/b][/color]
[color=Lime]
Now, that listed above was the so called “Ambitous Project” …what is embarrassing for me is that I couldnt get enough production from the people involved to pull that off. That was friggin it, I now that most of the people here could model that entire list in a few weeks by yourself or less if your that good. But that list took our team all of a few months? No, it took no time because it never happened.
Look, there wasnt shit being created modeling wise outside of what Madkarma created. Madkaram also started modeling because we lacked participation so we hoped that would spark some. Dont get me wrong we had a couple of modelers we were high on because they defintely had the skills but the maturity level just wasnt there. But for the most part we still had alot of beginner talent, I even express to Madkarma that we keet these guys on because it would be good experience for them and hopefully their skills would catch up. Anyway, my frustration drew from the time that was being wasted. Between Madkarma and I we could have modeled / animated and released the entire proof of concept ourselves but that wasnt the goal here. We were looking for talent to meet the needs required for the larger project once we set up funding but we didnt even come close to creating a proof of concept with this “public collab” attempt.
All in all it was just sad in a pathetic way to me, so to answer the questions that have been posted about starting it up again…I cant afford to waste more time. I tried it and it didnt work, I have interested parties on my end still waiting for a proof of concept, I cannot afford to burn bridges that I worked hard to build. At this point I am regrouping and buying a little more time, not to mention considering paying for talent in other areas to cement to CG the ideas I’ve pitched in script form.
No one has my script, all you have is an idea. If people want to continue with the “idea” I cant stop that and it’s fine. The artwork is there if the respecitive concept artist allow you to use it. I’ve lost almost six months and I really need to make that up…but for those of you that are interested in what will come of “Project ICE”…you have a web browser, use it from time to time. :twisted:
Oh before I forget....
What prompted this response was the fact that my insulting other artist came into question. Everyone starts at the beginning, some evolve faster than others while some just never truly get there at all. Im not a CG “god”, but Im not a beginner either. Although my expectations were for high level people I realized that I might end up with more beginner / intermediate talent. With that being said Madkarma should be able to vouch for the fact that I usually fought with him to keep people on the team that in reality I knew we should have cut anyway to acheive our goal.
So [/color][b]csc2h [/b]think before you speak and dont assume anything...you dont know me.
Cheers,
KidMesh
[color=White]
[/color]Thank you anthony… thats the email i was waiting for
In betwean all the negative energy this is costing all of us i came up with a killer idea…
And i also had a breaktrough business wise so i would appreciate it if you would contact me.
Plus i like to see if we can stil salvage something here.
Hello everyone … I recieved a message from someone concerned that the end of this project may be causing a rift between members. Reading through some of the past comments I’m a little surprised that such bitterness is being displayed here.
Yeah, it’s tough when a community project comes to an end (regardless of the reasons) … but I think pointing fingers and making accusations is the least professional way of dealing with the problem. Let’s try to remain professionals and avoid the petty bickering, please.
Kid Mesh started this project and he has the right to terminate it for whatever reason he wishes. Please, look at your work here as an experience. You may have contributed 2D or 3D resources for the project. That’s a learned experience … not a waste of your time.
Collab projects have many factors working against them even before the first post shows up here at CGTalk. The success rate is very low … almost to the point of “why bother?” However, those that do get completed shine as an example for those who have the desire to start their own collab projects.
So, why bother? Because each new project helps us develop our skills. Because we learn to work together as a team. Because we all have the desire to be successful. Because sooner or later there will be that one particular project that has all the right elements, the right team, the right motivations and the drive to complete.
Yes, it can happen … please, lets respect Kid Mesh’s decision to terminate or put this project on hold. Let’s move on to something new. And more importantly, let’s treat everyone with the respect and admiration deserving of professionals.
We may be pros, we may be students or we may be hobbiests dinking around on a personal computer at home barely capable of running our applications of choice. But in the end we are all members of CGTalk who share a common interest in digital arts.
Thank you.
KidMesh - I figured you would be ticked by my message…thats okay, no offense is taken and I hope I didnt offend you…Just sharing my comments like everyone else, not trying to change anything, etc… just one last thing and its nothing new… “it seems you may lack “real” world experience in the areas of resource assessment.” - KidMesh, you dont know me either…
And I havent assumed anything.
This is like reality television up in here !!
I’m sure you can get a few TV deals if you put the members of this thread
on their own TV show. I’d watch it 
… My goal was to see if I could find some talent here along with good work ethics that we could send a NDA to in the near future…
I know I asked for an NDA a while ago. If you want serious people, it’s usually best to have those ready in the beginning.
…As far as Madkaram and I was concerned, if you couldnt attend online meetings, post WIP shots of the stuff we assigned you and overall general interest then we had no desire to pursue that person professionally.
And it cost you some talented people.
1-char ( 3D )
1-weapon ( 3D )
[color=lime]1-monster [/color][color=lime]b[/b][/color]
[color=lime]1-robot [/color][color=lime]b[/b][/color]
[color=lime]1-interior ( room ) [/color][color=lime]b[/b][/color]
[color=lime]1-extrior ( entrance ) [/color][color=lime]b[/b][/color]
Had I seen this list in the beginning, I would have known immediately what was expected of me. This would have been a breeze for me, but as I’ve stated before, communication wasn’t where it needed to be to get me involved. You say your time is valuable, well I guarantee you that my time is more valuable to me than it is to you.
KidMesh, I respect your decision, and I totally understand your frustration. I was considering going ahead and working on something different with this crew if it was true that you had pulled the project (as it seems you have) but to be honest, I’m not sure I want a major role in an online project anymore. As a previous post says “Why bother?”… I have too many friends in the industry that will help me to be inviting people that I don’t know into the fold.
At any rate, I’m tired of this whole thread.
I honestly wish you the best of luck with ICE KidMesh.
c’est la vie…
I am watching this project since the first time it began.It teally makes me sad to see such collaboration projects die in such a way.I am not going to take anyones side here because this is pointless.I don’t know any details about it only what is shown in public so i can’t comment on who is right or wrong.
I am totally new to collaboration projects.Probably most of you have more experience than me in CG.Before i started my project i had absolutely no idea what i was going to get myself into.I had no experience,no plans,nothing.I only had a story and the will to make it into a movie.As the time passed by i learned many things and i realisized that it was far more difficult than what i originally expected.Most of the problems you say you had in this project i had also.There were a few moments that i also said “why bother?..”.I was very close in stopping too.But i thought that there is no point in sitting and blaming who is in fault.I am very stubborn in my life and i don’t give up easily.
I think that the best thing you can do if you want of course is to gather the members that have the will to continue with a project,create a small story that you will be able to complete and make something that you will all be proud of.It doesn’t matter if it is good or not.It will be something that is yours.If it’s good fine but if it’s not it’s ok.At least you tried and it didn’t work.Don’t give up.As someone else said think of it as an experience.You have probably learned a few things.I have certainly learned a lot with my project and if it has the same fate(i hope it wont)i will still be happy because i have learned a few things about how to organise a team and how things should work in such an environment.
And please stop blaming each other.I know there is a disappointment of how things turned out but you only make things worse this way.Anyway this is my opinion.I wish good luck to all the members with what you will decide to do from now on.
I WILL SCREAM IT BECOUSE EVERY ONE MISSED IT THE PAST 3X
LETS CONTINUE WITH THE ARTWORK ALREADY DONE
WE CAN INTERGRATE IT IN OUR NEW STORY
KIDMESH DOESNT WANT TO BE A PART OF THE PROJECT… FINE
THE REST DOES WANT TO GO ON … SO LETS GO.
This is for some people that think we need a lecture on behaviour.
Yes, we are venting our frustrations here and no one is getting rude.
Frustrations are normal when a project goes belly up.
I’m 32 years old and the others involved are about the same, i hardly think
we need a slap on the wrist for having a grown up conversation with other grown ups.
Some one said this wasnt a waste of our time… get real.
I’m not a noob and yes my time was wasted.
Only if i can intergrate what we had into a new story it doesnt have to be a total waste.
END OF DISCUSSION
Lets focus on gettin the project back on track with a new story.
hey Madkarma- I like your keep going and don’t give up spirit, WE REALLY NEED PEOPLE LIKE THAT IN HERE
… Having said that…you guys do need a bit of a lecture on behaviour …being in here is a priviledge not a right…even though you can get away with almost anything due to the open nature of the forum, we all should try to act as if we have some accountability to the community (BTW, I commend you for trying to do that by not letting your project and team become another collab forum casualty rotting on the curbside :buttrock: )
…if it’s worth anything, from my perspective, your group’s arguing in public is kind of like watching a family member start fighting at a big dinner party…I’d just want him to stop so visitors will come again next time we invite them.
If you need to have words, maybe do it using PM.
Keep the collab spirit growing…“don’t be intimidated by your project…intimidate your project!”
:wip: “madkarma”
So I’m assuming you will take the lead ?
Well take the first step and grab the wheel, post the new plan of attack.
What is the inventory of what is still available to this project.
who is still on board ? and so on. Keep it moving.
I also may know a project that may have some use of the stuff that has been
done already, and has a story but not much of a team…
As for models, and art and such, I also believe in it is a good idea to share
resources between other collaboration projects because there is so many “SCI-FI”
projects here in this section, we have so many ideas and resources in common.
If you lend your models or work to more then one project you will have more
of a chance to get your work shown and out there, and you never know witch project will
be the next big thing, and if they all make it to the top you will have hit the “JACKPOT”.
I’m a big fan of collaboration projects, I love to see the underdogs battle
against the odds to the top. Hey that’s a good movie Idea.
That’s my 2 cents, NOW WHO IS WITH ME !
:curious: ( sound of small insects, the wind and big silence in the background ):shrug: