Short Film Collaboration: Discussion and Concept development

#1

Here’s the deal… (long post, sorry)

[u]Preface[/u]

I know this is a tremendous undertaking… I know this has been tried before and failed…I know this is altruistic dreaming… and that we are all jaded by now…but the rewards would be huge… IMHO…

[u]Body[/u]

Pmg needs us to help the rest of the 3D community stand up and listen… by showing them animation work that really stands out… If you look at the gallery of this forum, or the pmg website… well… there is just not enough…great stuff… but… needs volume!

We need to come up with a way to encourage other animators to use this Product… and encourage the developers with it’s use… that is their dream… that others (many) would appreciate their incredibly hard work by rewarding them by using it… (and buying it too!).

The best way that I can think of doing this is by creating a short that would show Messiah in all its glory… much the same way as the Orange Project did with “Elephant Dreams” using Blender…

We all love this product and want it to flourish… the best way to do that is through battle testing it… by creating a project… which may help drive development as well… (Hopefully).

The way that Blender did it was by pre-selling DVD’s to partially fund the project… but, they did not even have a script when the production started! I am not suggesting we follow this model…and I know Blender has a HUGE following because it is free… but if we could attract attention to Messiah in the same way… it would be a win…win situation!!

[font=Helv]Taron has agreed to help with technical and artistic challenges… This alone is a tremendous boost… WOW! What other software can boast that??

And we have: (if they agree to help)

Joe Cosman rigging and animation guru… awesome!
Wegg, his Utah buddy that has been putting out great animation in Messiah for some time now… ( loved his AM work too!)
Maks… more setup and animation… great work!
Stooch…Julez… Crossbones… Chris…(Taron’s friend)… list goes on…

We also have many new users that would really benefit and learn from the process… now Kursad is onboard… phenomenal artist!!

The time is now… to do something with the enthusiasm that is building… with multiple releases in succession… and to continue on an upward trend…

[u]The Plan[/u]

We develop a story that is doable… and we document and chronicle the progress…via the web… which generates huge interest… and some profit…which we could use to help fund the development of Messiah as a gift and thanks to Pmg.

The story must show off the strengths of Messiah…

Animation and Rigging- really needs to shine!! (Joe Cosman Marek Schneider and others…)
Softbodies.(Wegg)…duh!
Rendering (supported by Taron and Thomas H. and others…?)
Deformation (Integration with 3rd party tools… IE Zbrush, etc).
Gigapoly capabilities…Utilized not just on characters, but also the 3d environment.
Particles… (Taron is expert here… come to think of it. everything else too!.. lol).
Effects (In order to show on the DVD the integration of multiple tools).
Compose- To showcase the layered animation capabilities on the DVD.

Again… the production becomes a learning tool for those involved, and anyone interested in purchasing the DVD, which includes the making of, (or Web) release… much like Blender’s extremely successful short.

What do you say?.. Dream a little… help alot…and together we make it happen…

(BTW) While I am listed as a new member, I have been using Messiah, since before it was called Messiah… as a Plug for LW… I love this app and the people that are passionate about its creation and use… and have been through the bumpy ride… still hanging in…so how 'bout it…you in?[/font]

#2

Very cool idea, I am not a proficient messiah user, but I’m aware that it is capable of some really amazing things. Then I go to the web site and I just see your average posts- except for Taron and Akira Orikasa- I’m sort of unimpressed. Now “Elephant Dreams” was not Pixar quality, but it did show that an open source software can do some really nice work. There is no reason why messiah is so underrated and it’d be cool to see some lengthy examples of what it really can do.

#3

And what an idea that is! :eek:
Well, besides that it makes me dig for emoticons that really fit the thought, I think this would be the perfect answer to the great example they were making with that short. Not only do I know that it is possible in messiah, but more so this might just be the kind of thing that would really make people realize what the real advantages of messiah are! And I don’t just mean the audience, but particularely those, who were willling to participate!

Now, I’m totally up to provide both guidance and contribute as much as I possibly can. It’s truely ambitious, yet, I think it would be a beautiful way for all of us to truely start communicating in connection with real tasks, you know. Great way to get people into the real goods and guts of it…hehe

Also a great way for us to explore even more all the little things that will most likely come out! :wip:

So yeah…here’s a big: :bounce: and :thumbsup:

I’m all for it!

Taron

#4

If Taron’s in it then you have my AXE

#5

Wow! Sounds exciting :thumbsup: I’m looking forward to what this team produces! Keep us posted!!!

#6

And mine…

Edit…
yay , well was supposed to post just under the axe thing, guess got one sec too late , any way …

#7

yeah that´s a nice idea, but before it dies off early, we really should get some kind of online group thing happening. I propose a yahoo group or something just for starters until we could get an online forum. We could start a paypal account(maybe in the name of someone we all trust eg taron? as long as he´s up to it) to accumulate funds for webhosting etc, I´m sure if everybody put a few dollars in then we´d get past that first hurdle in no time. Also, anyone have any suggestions on creating a forum? or are willing to share their expertise? I´m sure i could have a go, but i can´t spend a lot of time at a computer and as i´ve never created a forum, i´m sure my first attempt would be far from ideal.

now for a name, i was thinking something with biblical connections to follow in the theme of ¨messiah¨, maybe epiphany, other suggestions? doesn´t really matter, just a name.

I´d really love to see a project like this get off the ground, it´s good to see that a few guys who know what they´re doing have already pledged support, it can only be good for the messiah community. I think it will be important to contain our ambition as not to become too unmanageable, like setting definite goals and attributes to the film such as its length and complexity etc. Presumably it will be a piece focussing on character animation, I´d really like to see something that doesn´t resort to the same old slapstick humour, but maybe tries to do something a little original, such as elephants dream, while not amazing in its story, it was refreshing to see something in the field of animation that did something a little different.

so should i start a yahoo group? or what other possibilities are there?

anyway, sorry about the long post, i´m just a bit inspired by the idea, and i don´t mean to sound as if i´m taking over the idea, i´d love to hear other thoughts and suggestions, that´s why i think it has the potential to be great, because of the community input.

p.s. some of you may recognise me as the guy who just sold messiah, well for the moment that´s the case, despite my eyes, i think i will be picking up another copy in the near future, in the meantime i think i could contribute some modeling hours and maybe just try and help keep people motivated - maybe i´ll think up a cheer leading routine or something

#8

Why not a subForum here?

I will be happy to help, mainly in modeling and texturing I think.

#9

If a subforum could be created here, I’d say thats a great idea. Some things that would need to be realized is that most of the people you named are fairly busy and much of the work they produce IS for ‘work’. I’d suggest making the story simple and allow whatever time necessary to complete. But keep a timetable in mind to keep things flowing, many of these projects flop and it would be sad to see this start and then fall.

#10

Will this project also be open source, allowing buyers of the DVD free access to all work files? That is a definite plus, providing motivation to pre-buyers of the DVD.

You could name it “The Great Commission” referring to the command to the disciples to go out into the world to preach the gospel (which is sort of what you guys are intending with this project). It also refers simply to this being a commission to create a great work of animated art.

If you want to handle pre-sale DVD’s and possibly other merchandise, then you may need to get a website with an e-commerce solution to handle transactions. There will be administration to think about. No good getting the money and then have a huge community crying fraud because a bunch of artists corrupted the client database. That will reflect badly on pmG and messiah also.

You may need to differentiate between internal communication between team members and public communication. I’m sure you don’t want the world to follow every move you make, just the overall progress. With this said, a private forum may be cool for internals while a website communicates to the public. The public website may contain a blog to keep in touch with pre-buyers and supporters, updated frequently by a designated PR person who is in touch with the team. The blog should also be visual - eye candy!!

Messiah’s strengths can be communicated using CLEAN content as opposed to objectionable stuff. Clean content also gets passed around, improving word-of-mouth. In other words, go for an all ages ‘rating’ when you conceptualize. Publishing objectionable stuff can lead to various legal problems. Clean content can also be safely used as a form of viral marketing of messiah software, passing around low-res versions over the Internet and via e-mail. Another marketing idea is to sell the short via iTunes Video next to Pixar shorts.

#11

Hi guys

I’d be happy to lend a hand at the character animation. Although I use LW and XSI at work, and Maya for Animation Mentor, I do own Messiah Studio and this would be an ideal time to start using it.

Count me in!

#12

im down. Generalist at your service.

im assuming that this will be rendered 100% in messiah, i have a render farm too, but no BNR ;(

#13

:applause: A project collaboration would be a great idea ! :applause:

I personally could help with the more ‘technical’ stuff, i.e. creating plug-ins, scripts, expressions, rigs etc.

#14

one thing id like to add…

hot, scantily clad chicks with katanas is overrated and overdone. lets not go down that well beaten path. I would love to be part of a truly inspired animation. in fact, not a single point should be moved until a solid and compelling storyboard is in place.

#15

I agree. A decent story is a must. We could possibly brainstorm some ideas.

I like the sound of this. I would like to contribute possibly with some animating. Maybe some rendering of some completed scenes on my small farm. Just have to watch my existing work load.

#16

I think having a forum that differentiates between the various aspects of making(modeling, animation, storyboarding etc.) a film would be ideal, rather than having a heap of topics unorganized in just the one forum. I’m not sure if it would be possible to do on cg talk, am I naive? or am i just a virgo?
Another reason for having some webspace would be to host all of the assets, to be available for access by all of the artists working on the project.
I too think it would be important to keep a majority of the project under wraps, perhaps a dailies system such as used on the “delgo” project would also be a good interface between the general public and the project?
Obviously we would still report back on cg talk regarding progress etc. and to drum up support and gain possible assistance.
I’d probably avoid doing a dvd presale thing until production was well underway and the whole thing looked like being completed, because as Paul said, it would reflect poorly on pmg as well as the artists should it all fall through. I really don’t think an awful lot of money is needed, everybody has their own equipment, it’s really just setting up some kind of asset exchange system that might cost some money and I’m sure that if a number of us contribute a small amount then it should be quite feasable. Maybe we could sell some merchandise too, shirts for instance, my bro and i have a screen printing rig setup and could possibly do some shirts.
Also on something else Paul said, I think it’s perfectly within the realm of possibity to create something very original in all aspects and keep within a g rating. It’s also good to hear others are aware of the importance of the story and I’ll second their statements.

my bro has a site setup with bravenet.com, i think he gets 600gb bandwidth and 30gb hosting space which i would imagine should be sufficient, they have free tools for creating a forum and have password restriction etc. and i think it’s $120(aussie dollars) a year which includes the domain name. i’m sure there are better deals out there, would be great to hear about them.

#17

lanosrep1: you sound like a TV preacher to me… :rolleyes:

But after the mass, life goes on:

All those people have full time jobs to do and none of them will be able to spend 6 months on a production that would make a difference.

Raising money from this community will be a hard thing to do. I don’t think it will work from my experience selling plugins.

Blender has such a totally different history, development structure etc. that I don’t see any similarities - you can’t just dive into the code of messiah and develop a feature that you need or fix those problems…

messiah already WAS used by big studios…

If a commercial company makes every available mistake in the book, the users can’t help it in the end.

I prefer a maybe slow but constant road towards a better tool like in the past months.
Then people will use it with joy and it will spread.

Polemics will not help with that, but go on if you like - just don’t count me in.

Cheers :bowdown:

#18

I think I’m interested to this project expecially in charachter animation workflow…also as a way to improve skills…so I think it’s important before the title and the short itself(is it a short?) to realize the 1)aim, 2)the ways to reach it(the workflow), 3)the costs (that I think could remain at 0 considering that we are all using our own instruments) and 4)the benefits…
only with a clare scheme such this we can speak about the “story”…

#19

sucks that you are so negative but you know, there will always be naysayers. you would be a valuable asset though.

i think this production can be done with messiah as a core but not the only tool. I feel that messiahs goal is not the be all end all tool. I would do my modeling and texturing in modo and animate in messiah. I could even see rendering some elements of the comp in other packages such as LW. we have capacity to do realflow renders in messiah now, so i could see some liquid simulation being done as well.

maybe as we work on this project, limitations in messiah will crop up, i hope they do, and i hope pmg would do their own part in addition to taron to fix them in order to achieve the end. i see this as not only a collaboration of talented people, but a way to test and push messiah in the process. doing so would go a long way in improving it.

#20

If you keep it simple, like 1 character, 1 enivornment and less then 1 min or less of showing off what messiah can do…then yes. I can probably see us having a community project.