Roberto's Bullhorn: LETS TALK (Lessons Learned Thread)

#4

Challenge looked great but I didn’t make enough progress to say one way or the other. Good time to be busy.

There is something that’s bugging me a bit. I’ve either finished or gotten pretty far along in the last 7 or 8 challenges so I feel a bit like a regular now. At the end of every challenge there was always that time between the official end and when you get the vote ready (a few days maybe) where you allowed us to continue working. I got used to that and started taking it into account. Still I was working late into the night sometimes trying to get my model done on time and sometimes not. The problem is after the 80s challenge and now after this challenge you made a special notation about whether the entry was on time or not. To me this put a stigma on any entry that was listed as “not on time”. I know the reason for it and that’s fine but warn us first before changing the way it has operated for the last 10 challenges.

So final question, is this the way it will be done from now on? Personally I prefer that this forum is pretty laid back and that entries can push the rules from time to time. I also have found that no matter what amount of shaders, textures and lighting are used in a render the best model usually ends up winning anyway.

#5

My style always has been about keeping the eye on the ball.

The goal is simple, I want to have challenges with the BEST artwork on the net.
Month in and month out.
I dont care how we get there, as long as the end result looks awesome.
And I want to make sure our members get some kick ass porfolio pieces, that avoid the usual cliches.
I do take pride on how artists grow in out forums, and the fact that we have a relaxed attitude.

But I want to make sure that this sort of output is possible on a regular basis, so I dont like the idea of people having to sweat blood to get an entry done.

That leads to burnout, and frankly people who do crap like that are doing it to trip on power.

After all the challenges should be fun, that is why if I see that a lot of people are falling behind
That is why I ten to give more time when I feel that it is needed.

But to do this I decided to post that note stating who did what when so the people who finished their entries by the time of the original dateline will not hang me on the nearest lampost.

Anyway, keep the comments coming.
-R

#6

I can’t really say I have any real complaints, certainly nothing I “hated” about the challenge, it was overall a massively positive experience.

Regarding the deadline changing issue that Wyatt brought up. Well I don’t think it’s really a stigma to the ones who were late, I’m not sure anyone really pays attention to it when voting. For me if there’s an issue, it’s with the size of the challenge itself, it seems really, really hardcore :slight_smile: I know that’s kind of the point, but 10-12 expressions might have been sufficient.

The thing is, any work you do to the absoloute best of your ability is going to be really difficult whatever your level, and if you want to have a shot at getting some votes, well you’re pitted against such high level opposition that it’s already going to be “hardcore” by default. So perhaps a slightly more moderate brief would mean less need for extensions, slightly less stress for those involved, and you’re still going to get the high quality work as that’s what we’ve come to expect from these challenges anyway.

Just looking at your bullet points question about the community environment - I think it’s a really great community. Very welcoming and not “cliquey”. The only thing I can think of is ensuring that everyone gets encouraging feedback on their work. It’s so hard when you’re keeping the thread alive with your own updates, and with little to no feedback inbetween, whilst the front runners are swamped with praise. I’m sure most of us have been in that position at some point, and it’s our own resposiblity to ensure that people of all levels are equally encouraged (assuming they respond well to criticism… :)).

That’s not a criticism of how the challenge was run, it’s a problem on all CG forums, but just something to bear in mind I suppose.

Anyway, I really enjoyed myself, and I’ll definately be joining again in the future, so cheers Roberto :slight_smile:

Chris

#7

What I liked about this last mini challenge was that I learned something about planning, in my case, the lack of it. I spent the whole challenge trying to get the likeness of my model right, as it was just a portrait, so I never got to do the expressions. Other people did, and they were fast, and much more CREATIVE. I was just trying to copy the references to a point of perfection. So I reflected about my process, because I had LOTS of free time to do this thing, and it didn’t came out right.

There’s nothing that I hated about this challenge, i hated the way I approached it.

To get the community more involved we just need to get awesome models every time. Personally I would like to see more challenges like this one, and nothing too specialized/formulated. Focusing more on the creative side, and less on the technical side.

I don’t like standardized shaders, methods, or anything like that. Leave as it is and try to always choose subjects that can be approached with lots of different techniques.

I think you should simplify what is needed to show for voting. Wireframes and orthografic views are not necessary in my opinion. They add nothing. It’s even hard to go through all those images to vote. The artist can choose the best way to show the model. Avoid this distinction of a “beauty render”. It must not have textures for color/ambient though. I know people try to do hair, and realistic eyes even if the model is untextured, but I think that’s fine really. Other people will try to treat it more like a sculpture(which I prefer) but when a model is well done, and you can see the form well, these things don’t matter.

Just ask for a sufficient number of angles in perspective, with the model well lit, simple shaders and without unnecessary textures/backgrounds. That will make the posts more to the point.

#8

I have not looked at it as a competition more like challenging myself - as in trying to find time to do something in a scheduled week - so the voting doesn’t matter that much to me, personally. I’ll be happy with whoever wins. I treat it as an exercise and a fun one at that.
Short deadlines make me interested and on the ball so I would never change that… a week one way or the other is cool :slight_smile: It’s obvious the time line will be challenging to many, like those who are just starting or don’t do 3d every day or simply work all week and don’t have a time off. Others, on the other hand, may be students with hours to spare or Freelancers between jobs - it’ll never be ‘equal’ in terms of chances but what competition is?

So yeah I loved it. The thing I’d change would be making it strictly modeling oriented - no texturing competitions … but that’s just me and I love to texture but I think concentrating on that is simply missing the point of what is called a hardcore MODELING challenge after all:)

maybe introducing a turntable would be a good idea - to show off the model… or maybe not :wink: - sorry just thinking aloud here

#9

What i like of these challenges is

_To have a dateline with a defined theme gives me the organization that i need for finish a model.

-Sharing with people with same interests and different experience.

-Learning a lot of modeling and applying and doing more…to watch tutorials is too easy, anyone can do it.

_The relaxed and supportive environment in the comunity.

_More images for the personal portfolio

_Participation it´s free:D.

_The extra time saved me the two challenges i partipated and i think is a good thing.
I find that saying who posted on time is fair, and imo is not an stigma…plus nobody seems to care at the time of voting.

I don´t hate, but i don´t like having to upload the orthographic views, with the respective wires and with size restrictions is a little painfull, …wich don´t seem to be respected rules anyway.

And i agree with this

The thing I’d change would be making it strictly modeling oriented - no texturing competitions …

…but if you need to make a hook for the voting thread, you could have a separate categorie for beauty render.

Really those are just details that don´t realy mind…is all positive about the challenges.

About fomenting the challenges, you could post in diferent forums of CGtalk every new challenge…and for what i see you may need help from others moderators, it looks like you´re a little lonely with all these challenges, but i don’t know if that’s the case.

Sorry for the extention of this replay:blush: .

Cheers.

#10

Its my first attempt for any of the challenge

I realy like the comments, critics from co-participants. This keeps us to learn and prepare to win the race in more social way. If not won, no probs bcoz we won attitude.

Its not a problem, if someone use additional shader / texture / light to forecast the model in better way. Sure, It 'll develop us as multiskill artist, if we too practice it.

As its hardcore modeling challenge, you may create addional category for “winner of best forecast model” in this section to avoid broken-heart feel for additional shader work.

May we all develop this idea, if u like it.

Cheers!

#11
  • I dont’ know if I am entitled to talk since I didnt’ find the time to partecipate. I think this was really hard competition and lot of great professional partecipate on that.
    there’s my suggestion that I also pointed out on the other forum

-It will be very funnny to work also with the lighting challenges people. we have great modellers here and it will be very good to do something together also to learn more about texture, shaders etc.

-There should be also the possibility to have both hard surface modellers/organic modellers at work in same competition with two categories. I try to model both organic and inorganic and with new softwares the disctinction is not really more clear but I can totally understand that organic and inorganic modelling can be two different worlds. A very good and fast hard surface modeller can totally suck at portraing humans (myself :slight_smile: even if I’ not so good and fast HD)

KUDOS as always to Roberto and all partecipants. I guess this was one of the best (well my favorite also were the 80’s toys and how not to mention the Heavy metal competition ?)

#12

I thought the challenge was great. It was also my 1st challenge…

I think that maybe if everyone was doing either a cartoon or real or fantasy character that crits would have been more precise and that way more people are learning. It also puts every one on an even footing. It helps people to compare there models to someone else so that they can learn. With everyone doing there own thing it was also difficult to judge.

I’d also like to see more anatomy challenges. (Not sure its been done here already as I’ve only recently started following HMC). This way everyone can really learn. Like doing the arm with hand at all different positions and so on. The possibilities are endless. You could probably have a HMA (hardcore modeling anatomy forum). But its just an idea.

I have no problem with textures and such. Most of the past challenges included textures. And to be honest a texture is only as good as the base model. You can’t map a photo to a cube and expect it to animate right or look right in all angles.

Its great what your doing. Keep up the fantastic work.

#13

Hehe, I just think Roberto runs the best challenges. For whatever reason, I’m pretty sure it’s Roberto, his are always mega popular.

#14

Of course, i said what i said trying to bring some ideas that might or not be helpfull for promoting the challenge. And because i have the feeling that moderate and run this challenges are a lot of work for one person…even if that person is doing an excelent and sufficient work:thumbsup: .

By the way WiattHarris, would be good to see you participating in upcoming challenges.

cheers.

#15

It’s a modelling challenge. No textures.

Yes, a texture won’t save a bad model. BUT, it obscures the model, it makes it harder to see the form. I don’t like it because the person must post more images, with textures, without textures, etc. But it’s not part of the challenge. It won’t hurt the quality of the works.

And I think the themes should be open enough to allow us to choose the style and techniques. I’m particularly interested in challenges that are more creative and the results have a wide range of styles, like the last one. In my opinion that’s what make these challenges successful and fun.

#16

I thought the challenge provided a great opportunity to learn and improve modeling skills. I like the timed structure and open ended topic. The time limit helped me to stay focused and finish the model. I did not have a problem with the time extension. I know that things do not always go as planned in life and this is just an online community, not a strict job. Also, the extension allowed for the inclusion of some really nice models. I think having a general topic with the modeler free to choose how they want to approach it works well.

There wasn’t any part of the challenge I hated. I would have liked more critiques on my work. Getting a late start on my expressions and finishing most of them in the last week probably did not help, but the lack of comments was rather awkward. I know I am somewhat timid and did not comment much on other artist’s work, but I am trying to change that. Maybe if there was someone who posted some constructive criticism every so often, it might help the artists such as myself to improve their work or encourage others to post some helpful words.

To help community interaction, maybe you could post periodic updates of the other competitions going on. I just know that I got wrapped up in the challenge and was only looking at the other modelers entries. I also think this current/upcoming challenge will help. With all the different branches working on art for the same topic, I think people will have more of an incentive to check out how the different groups are approaching the same topic.

#17

That’s what I was talking about with my last post. Maybe just something like a voting category for “most helpful forum member”, which could be won by people not even in the challenge if they’ve taken the time to offer constructive criticism to other people. There are already a lot of voting categories so I don’t know about that, but it would be good to acknowledge the people who really spent time helping others out.

I’d second Brett on the anatomy challenge thing, but that’s just because that’s what I like, it’s my bag baby :slight_smile:

#18

This was my first time participating in a HMC, and I really enjoyed it, and loved the feedback I got. Some of it was very helpful really helped my entry, and all of it was at the very least encouraging. I’m not sure I really commented much on other peoples entries, I shall try to do so more next time. Maybe there should be a most active/helpful commenter award at the voting stage!

I can’t say there anything I hated about the challenge to be honest. The time allocated was short enough to be interesting, and even though I stayed up late finishing my entry before the original deadline, I didn’t mind when it got extended. I had some time to make a quick animation from my model and I could have worked on it some more if I hadn’t wanted to move on to other things.

With respect to textures, I think it worked nicely not to have them for this particular challenge, but I’ve seen challenges in the past where they were an important part of a lot of the entries so I wouldn’t want to see them ruled out entirely. Maybe instead have it specified at the beginning whether textures were required, optional, or mandatory.

#19

I didn’t participate in this one, but an anatomy challenge would be Sick.

#20

we will do it…

but first I am going the concept art challenge.
Oh yeah I almost forgot, the next challenge goes live ON FRIDAY
-R

#21

Agh! Friday? Well that’s cool. I will be away on vacation starting this Saturday so I will be a week behind. Although I’ve got some extra work on my plate right now so I might be too busy anyway. We’ll see, seems like a great challenge. I really hope to get involved. Don’t want to just stop at one HMC. I want to keep going.

#22

While part of me agrees with the whole texture idea, they are not required, so punishing someone who adds them is a little silly imo. besides, if 4 people out of 10 put textures on their model, and the other 6 feel belittled by it, it might give some of those six the inspiration and motivation to create textures themselves, giving them a finished piece for the portfolio.

That’s what these challenges are about. Creating artwork for yourself and the community. Saying “no textures” to me is just a form of justifying one’s own laziness, and rather than trying to push the extra mile to get those textures done, you’d want everyone else to “skimp” on their own models so you don’t feel so bad. Pardon if that sounded harsh, it wasn’t meant to be at all, I’m just tired. Yeah, there’s a vote and some people win categories, but for all those with a finished entry who didn’t win a category, well it’s not like they lost or anything. They still have a model to showcase, and in some instances, a model with textures, which will help sell your artwork on your demo reel.

Cheers

-Rage

#23

I’m reminded of something, what is it… Oh yes, the same exact conversation. :smiley:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=4385373

I mostly remembered this one because it involved Rick Baker. The fact is though that some are going to texture their models, there is no getting away from that. This challenge proved just like most of the ones in the past, the best model wins textured or not. I think it’s the quality of the CGTalk crowd that can look past any raz-ma-taz and judge the model strictly by the modeling or sculpting.

Make sure you notice the date on that old thread. Certain topics never die on this forum. :smiley: