ROBERTO'S BULLHORN: Clue for the Next Modelling Challenge

#21

I’m not saying beginners shouldn’t take part, I’m saying that the rules in a hardcore modeling contest shouldn’t be geared towards the needs of beginners - that should be pretty obvious to anyone.
What about people who don’t have time to finish in 3 weeks? Or 4 weeks? or 5 weeks?
There has to be a cutoff point somewwhere, and since this is hardcore, the shorter the better.
The obvious way to work it out is to benchmark what the faster and better peope can do and base it around that.

#22

i am sort of a beginner and i disagree with you Rod.

The challenge in hardcore but the challengers can be anyone. Thats the fun.

The time is set in an average for everyone i think.

#23

Heh, well this is the first time I’ve modeled a full anatomically correct male figure, so I’m a beginner in this one too. Still managed to do it in two weeks though, with pretty reasonable results, so I think I’m a good benchmark.
How is this average worked out? What is the average amount of time the average perosn has to spend modeling each week?
What is the average number of hours modeling time it should take the average modeler to model a copy of David?
There are no available answers for those questions, it’s just an arbitrary decision whether to make it 2 or 3 or 4 weeks.
It’s also not just about the modeling time you have available, but how quicly you model.

#24

i dont see how you could set yourself as benchmark for everyone else. none of us can.
its set by a FORUM LEADER with good judgement i am sure.
lets just respect that and leave it at that.

#25

Actually, I think the time limit should change depending on the model that has to be made.

#26

well, as i said before this is too early to discuss how long the time limit should be. let just wait and see what Roberto comes up with for the topic then we can continue this discussion.

#27

I think my David came out with good results too, and I’m a beginner. That’s part of what this challenge is about, finding out what you can really do if you push yourself. I’m not talking about myself when I say it should be three weeks. I’m sure now with this new experience, that I could model the David ( or any similar figure ) in alot less time.

But I can’t say because I could do it in less time, that the time should be shortened and forget about everyone else. The last time I checked, CGTalk is a community, and in a community there are all types of people, at different skill levels, different time schedules, helping each other. Some don’t even have access to a computer all the time.

I think it’s just about the fairness, but like fx81 said, ultimately, it’s up to the forum leader, so let’s just sit back and wait to see what Roberto comes up with.

#28

FYI

ONE WEEK TO GO :The Hardcore Modeling MINI-Challenge #1: The David (MAY 15th)

ROBERTOS BULLHORN: Expanded RULES for the FINAL RENDER

-R

#29

responding to the ‘clue’ It’s obviously the Tower of Pizza …

since Roberto was leaning towards 3 weeks … :smiley:

#30

It’s a train I tell you. I should be an inspector… Like clousoue. Kato, yoeh fuol.

#31

or something like this ? :slight_smile:
http://www.cruiseweb.nl/images/dwarsdoorsnede/VoyageroftheSeas.jpg

it is too bad… but i cant take enterence to next challenge…or nothing else…

#32

Hello,

I’m new here. How works this mini-challenges, can I suggest any photo?

This challenges sounds intersting and funny! :bounce:

[]s
carlos

#33

Looking foreward to the next challenge.

Was to busy to do anything with that David… :shrug:, but I’m ready for the next one.

#34

well, the next challenge will be hard-surface modeling, NOT organic. just clearing that up since i still see people suggesting organic subject.

basically people can suggest(photo or link) something that will be a challenge to complete in 3 weeks.

Roberto will decide on the final topic, and it will be announced. then we will have approaximately 3 weeks to finish the whole thing, part of it etc. depending on our type of entry.

then they will be voten on by everybody.

i wish the voting was left to a judging panel made up of industry professionals instead of open voting. i seen people voting in the david challenge and some of them seem to have no clue about realistic modeling or have the capacity to observe objectively.

#35

I agree there shoud be a judgng panel, but not for your reason which was basically ‘those stupid noobs who voted don’t know good from bad, everyone should have agreed with my judgement, after all, I’ve been doing this for 20 years and am not just some uppity know-it-all student’
My reason for not having an open public vote is that when there aren’t that many people voting, it’s more about who you know rather than about your artwork. You can easily get a bunch of friends come and vote for you, which makes a mockery of the whole thing.

BTW, I think Roberto has already chosen the topic for the next one, so feel free to suggest anyting organic or otherwsie for the following challenge.

#36

heh! i could reply, but forum arguement isnt my thing.
lets just say i wont go into name calling like you and fall to your level.

#37

Heh, you just called everyone who didn’t agree with your expert opinion a stuipd noob, so get get all high brow on us now.
You’re saying that when you made your judgement, you based it on an in-depth critique, taking into account your expert knowledge on all relevant factors, while everyone else who voted and didn’t agree with you obviously made their decision based on something like ‘I likes that one teh best cus it has like nice pretty colors and stuff’

#38

Interesting debates goin on here…
I would like to add my opinions to this:

For those who are leaning on 2 weeks because ‘speed is part of the challenge’, I tend to disagree. There is a forum for speed modelling:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=122

And I think that this is where speed should count (and only there).
Having said this, we obviously shouldn’t take 6 months either. Let’s be reasonable. I suppose the problem is that ‘reasonable’ is a variable that changes from person to person. I think that if you manage to get your modelling done in two days because you are say, unemployed and live at home, then great… Get it done and simply move on to other stuff while others continue. You’ll find out the end result regardless whether you finish in 2 days or 2 weeks. This is not a race in my opinion, harcore or not. To me, hardcore does not equate to speed, it equates to model complexity. Otherwise, a hardcore challenge can entail building less complex objects in even less time than it requires to build them. Time and model complexity go hand in hand, and as one becomes more, there should really be some compensation by having the other become less (its all about reciprocity in my opinion).

While Oddity does bring up interesting (and correct) points of longer periods becoming a drag and some people losing interest, the other side of the coin, some people have fulltime (or even overtime) career / job obligations, family obligations (when children are involved, well, we know how much time that takes out of the day), not to mention a host of other unkown issues not mentioned. I don’t agree that speed should be included (within reason of course) simply because of the fact that there is the high speed forum for that. If you are done early, great. Move on and wait. Simple as that.

I also agree with a panel of judges that make unbiased judging instead of just any jane or john doe forum member making votes. Member voting systems can be easily rigged, and if there is a lack of adequate votes, who is to say that the ‘correct winner’ will be the victor?

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,

NRG

#39

heh, you just dont get it do you?
it has nothing to do with my personal opinion. open voting is the same as the number of stars you see on posts here. there is a different between informed opinion by industry professionals(which i am not) and votes from non-professionals(which i am).

#40

Not really, ‘speed’ in that context is talking about a few hours. You’d be lucky to model one of David’s toes correctly in that time.

Having said this, we obviously shouldn’t take 6 months either. Let’s be reasonable. I suppose the problem is that ‘reasonable’ is a variable that changes from person to person. I think that if you manage to get your modelling done in two days because you are say, unemployed and live at home, then great… Get it done and simply move on to other stuff while others continue. You’ll find out the end result regardless whether you finish in 2 days or 2 weeks. This is not a race in my opinion, harcore or not. To me, hardcore does not equate to speed, it equates to model complexity. Otherwise, a hardcore challenge can entail building less complex objects in even less time than it requires to build them. Time and model complexity go hand in hand, and as one becomes more, there should really be some compensation by having the other become less (its all about reciprocity in my opinion).

However, speed is also an indication of modeling proficency, a better modeler can model faster and they require less thinking time and effort to produce the same result as a lesser modeler. The problem is that there is no way to prove exactly how many hours someone has worked on their model, so that can never be taken into consideration in the actual judging process.
It’s always going to be unfair, no matter what the time limit is, people with more free time are going to have an advantage, but I can see your point that the longer the time period is, the more it evens out.