Rendering

#31

I couldn’t agree more. I hate to keep making the comparison to LightWave, but it’s there, for obvious reasons. And one of the things that always bugged me about LightWave is that they would be working on the next “version” for a year or more. When there were things that needed to be addressed immediately. You might get a maintenance upgrade a few weeks after the initial release but then silence for a year.

Now I know that it’s only been 2.5 months since Modo was released, but considering all the hype about how fast they could develop using nexus, I was hoping that they would throw us a new thingy here and there; A bug fix, a new Pearl script, a text tool, (hint hint) whatever.

I know that this thing is still in it infancy, and I know that they are working very hard on both updating modo, and “other things.” but I’m feeling a little left out of the loop.

#32

And Mac OS X [the server]
https://renderman.pixar.com/products/techspecs/index.htm

Bert

#33

“Tight lip”? I was wondering how much time they had to develop with all the hand holding they need to be doing in this forum alone.

#34

Is that what you call hand holding? I guess you never been to Silo forum. :wink:

#35

Sounds like you haven’t seen most of the stuff they have had to answer here.

I just popped over to the silo forum. I didn’t see as many people asking RTFM questions like they have been of Luxology.

#36

Well unless you have some specail info that most user dont have access to, than no. But as far as what has been show of Luxology on the cgtalk networks…i have seen them all.

anyways, i’ll leave it at that. I think “drkollossus” sums it up nicely.

#37

Revealing development efforts early is a double edged blade. Half the people complain about “over hyping” pre-release software and the other half complain that they are “out of the loop”. Our policy of “tight lips” is there for a solid reason. We know that development schedules change and we also know that people make decisions about their business based on the information we provide. Therefore it is important that we have a VERY solid understanding our a release date before we make official announcements or even talk officially about a product.

Yes we have done some sneak peeks of technology in the past. We have demonstrated technology for rendering, animation and other content creation tools. However, we are very careful not to make any product announcements about these technologies and we generally do not promote these technologies beyond the sneak preview. These tech previews are designed to let people understand where we as a company are heading. They are not intended for people to use for purchase planning.

That being said, we also want to extend special thanks to our user base and as such we will be making some information available to registered users of modo prior to the public release of said info. Registered users will receive more information about this sometime in the next week or two.

Thanks for all your feedback and consideration.

Brad Peebler
President
Luxology

#38

Now that deserves a bounce!

:bounce:

#39

Brad, you’re such a teaser!
NEXT WEEK or TWO ???
These Christmas are going to be …exotic! :thumbsup::applause:

Cheers,

#40

yahoo!!! there we go … two weeks eh. And I thought Santa is a myth. :bounce:

#41

Don’t get too crazy. It’s nothing huge, just some good info for users of modo. :slight_smile:

BP

#42

Brad, nice to see you here on CGtalk. Everyone’s really excited 'cause we wanna know what ya got!

As I said before, it’s a pity the renderer isn’t available now! It’s a unique situation with users fleeing in droves from another particular 3D app. It’s like a herd of wildebeest migrating. Those users need a renderer now. If Lux’s product is not ready, they’ll go buy something else. Later it will be harder to pry those users from their alternate renderers, as they will have settled in. Better to get them now while the transition is happening.

#43

I couldn’t agree more…I have used ‘another 3D app’ for many years but in its current state/rate of progress I am seriously considering, for the first time, a move…This is partially why I feel it WOULD make commercial sense to give a rough release timetable for the renderer and animation modules (if they are indeed separated). Based on Lux’s experience with Modo development and development to date of the renderer/animation module(s) it must surely be possible to predict roughly when the release(s) will be…and that might make people say…‘hey I’ll stick with my current 3D app a little longer and see what the Lux stuff is like’ before taking the financial and learing plunge into another 3D app…as Beamtracer says…once people/companies have moved over to say Maya or XSI…(like a large studio in the UK already has)…it’s going to be very very hard to get them to move away from this new investment in time and money. Regarding the people who complain about hype…I say ignore them…Give people information…it’s the best way for people/companies to make informed choices/decisions…denying this for the sake of a few people who complain of ‘hyping’ does not, IMO make sense.

I fully understand that details of ‘super cool’ features would be a bad idea re competition…but general/broad statements???

So Brad…what do you say…would it be possible to at least give a rough release timetable (H1 or H2 2005) for the products in the pipline?

Thanks.

#44

There are areas in which MODO’s documentation is scant at best - namely modeling (odd that, considering it’s a modeling app). If they provided as much info on SDS modeling as they did for assigning keyboard shortcuts, they’d be much further ahead. As it stands, they seem to assume that users have experience working with subdivision surfaces in LW or Maya, which makes diving in rather difficult. This ‘breezing over’ SDS modeling in the documentation is the app’s single biggest shortcoming, IMHO. They’re relying far too much on the end-user having to adapt by hunting down LW tutorials.

#45

I’m going to have to disagree with you there. I want to know as much as anyone else here, but, I think, it would be disastrous for them to announce anything before they are ready. Don’t you remember just a few months back when they announced that modo would be out by the end of the month and they missed that deadline by just a few days? People where practically calling for their heads on sticks.

I’ve seen it a dozen times, software is announced and then the deadlines slip, and the fans (yes fans, not users) freak out. The name calling starts, and the whole thing goes down hill very fast.

No, the best way to handle this is to keep their collective mouths shut until they can say precisely what and when. And maybe that is what is coming in the next few weeks… but I don’t think so. I mean technically (I believe) they have not officially announced anything about a renderer or animation capabilities. I know, I was at the demo, but that was not an announcement. It was just a showing of technology (again, I believe). And I would bet that, that kind of an announcement would happen at a trade show. Siggraph would be my bet. Look at the cycle for modo. 1. Secret showing, 2) rumors on the net, 3) buzz as Siggraph approaches 4) big announcement and showing at Siggraph 5) then shipping a few weeks or a month after. (Luxology prove me wrong).

And as for studios that are thinking of switching, or is it you that is thinking of switching; Let me pose this to you. Do you have to switch? Is there a feature that you cannot complete a project without? Well, then switch. If your renderer has stopped working, then switch. If it is no longer financially beneficial, then switch. Never try to make plans based on software that dose not exist yet. Especially when no one knows exactly what to expect. which I suppose is your point. and I guess mine is you can’t rush these things.

besides, it would be like peeking at your christmas presents…

Brad

#46

Hi Brad,

Thanks for your comments, clearly this can be seen from multiple angles, however I feel that this (quoted) last part is unfair. I shall not name companies but there is a medium sized studio (everyone in the UK will probably know who I refer to that has very recently switched from Lightwave to XSI. I have spoken to someone in that studio (again, no names) and they have informed me that ‘post switch’, Lux would have to pull something utterly amazing out of the bag to get them to consider re-switching. I am also in touch with another studio here who are now looking at either going the XSI or Maya route (I believe it depends on renderman integration as to which way they will go). I am NOT basing this entire argument on MY studio’s own position.

On the second point about switching, IMO, it simply isn’t as simple as you imply. 3D software is highly complex and as such takes a long time to learn. It isn’t simply learning the features but how to apply them imaginatively and IMO more importantly learning where the software falls down…sometimes this can be quite a convoluted scenario…‘A feature works with B feature unless C feature is pluggining into D feature…then it works apart from when networked’…etc. I have found that when dealing with larger projects with severly compressed timestables, having a thorough understanding of where things might break and thus avoiding them is the difference between a great project and an OK one or worse. So this investment in time to become ‘expert’ is considerable. Add to that, the financial implications, for example…is the distributed rendering free etc and you have a VERY serious directional decision for a small studio to make. Now, clients demand more and more dramatic effects, atmospheric animations, faster and faster…so whilst ‘the renderer isn’t broken’ and ‘there isn’t a feature that I can’t live without’…staying with a piece of software where the development seems to have slowed so dramatically starts to lessen your ability to compete effectively…it’s not a step change where a switching decision is clear…it’s a gradual creep…SO whilst I am in a position where LW still seems to be working BUT I have serious concerns about it’s future, it is only natural to look around for an alternative, which is what I am doing. Now the people at Lux pretty much coded Lightwave (let’s face it, a great app) and I have great respect for their abilities…just look at Modo…so I have every faith that they will produce a great renderer (1.8 billion poly’s in less than a minute with GI!). However, I have NO idea when this renderer might come along…not even which year…I don’t know when they might release an animation module and so it is difficult to factore them into the decision making equation. True, they might produce a bad app (I feel unlikely) BUT at least if I have some rough guide to release dates, I can PLAN. If Lux say the animation module will be ready in 2008, I will go with XSI or Maya (unless of course LW picks up seriously) I can’t leave it that long. If Lux say that animation and rendering will be released H2 2005, then fine, I’ll stick with LW (messiah for Char animation) and make a decision when the Lux stuff is released. I am all about information (the best at the time). We all know release dates slip, I am not asking for a date…just a rough guide to allow some future software/direction planning.

Thanks

David

#47

I agree totally. Modo is my first 3D package ever. I am brand new to 3D. While I love the program…the documentation, (pdfs and videos) are lacking in modeling techniques. I am sure they are great if you are coming from another 3D app. But for me, I have done all the provided tuts etc, and still feel lacking in a lots of areas, namely SDS. I know if it takes time but I feel that a Modeling software should have more modeling instructions and tuts.
Secondly I do not own any other 3D software so therefore I have no Renderer, soon I will have to get one to progress if I do not hear anything from Lux as to when they will have one so I can plan accordingly.

#48

Brad P… I think it’s OK to mention a vague release time estimate if it is qualified as such. You could say that “we are aiming for Q1 or Q2 2005, but that date will possibly slip”.

People who buy the Lux renderer will transition from all the other 3D apps. However, I would have thought that the biggest group of potential customers is Lightwavers. Like it or not, people are leaving Lightwave now. Starting from the top down (professionals first, enthusiasts last). Each month that passes before the renderer is released is potential customers lost to other apps.

Once they’ve settled into other apps you’ll have to drag them kicking and screaming to change to something new so soon. As DMack pointed out (above), the price of the app is nothing compared to the cost of learning and adjusting the pipeline. Companies that make one change are not going to make a second change six months later.

I suggest that it would be better for Luxology to release a core rendering app, stable and solid, but without all the bells and whistles under the sun, just to get something out the door. Other modules could always be added later.

“Time is of the essence (said the Walrus!)”

#49

I’ll be than happy with that!! Do it Brad! its better than keeping the users in the dark for years.

#50

Well incase it doesn’t get announced…what is a good rendering software to use? As stated before I am new to 3D apps…I am getting the basics of Modo down but sooner or later I will want to start rendering my stuff. Any suggestions on a Renderer, I dont really care about animation and already own Modo so that is all I am lacking…