Relationships?


#1

Can someone from back in the day (< 8.5) give me the short skinny version of how Relationships work? I have created a new model. . . Put bones in it, applied my constraints to my bones which created this new “Pose1 Relationships” thing under a Relationships folder. How do I apply this relationship to a new action? Dragging and dropping in the PWS doesn’t work. . . Oh wait lemme try dragging into the action window. . . nope.

They don’t work like the old Poses did do they.

Help?


#2

HA! I see. You turn them on with the pose slider thinger. That would make switching rigs pretty easy huh. . .


#3

Under the models properties, you can set the default state of a pose and whether it is visible in the pose sliders.
You can set your contstraints to be “on” by default–which was one of my favorite changes in V10 :slight_smile:


#4

Hello.

Additional info:
Right-click on the Pose (in the Pose Slider Panel would be a good place) and, in the flyout menu that appears, select “Settings.” A panel will spring into view, and you can tweak various Pose parameters here. I like how you can adjust the minimum and maximum values. The proverbial “I’m with you a thousand percent!” can be made a reality, here!

Sincerely,

Carl Raillard

PS: Does anybody know if there’s a keyboard hot-key to expand those itty-bitty disclosure triangles, in the PWS?


#5

All these new terms. . .

I want to make a slider that allows me to animate my object’s transparency. So I right click the Transparency value of my model’s surface and pick “New Relationship”. It creates a folder called Surface Relationships, makes another folder under that called Transparency Relationships and then “Relationship1”. I pop over to my pose sliders but. . . nothing. I can’t see anything in the Model properties to turn this “Relationship1” into a slider.


#6

Oh, that’s no good. You just created a relationship that will make things happen whenever your object becomes more transparent. A fat lot of good that does you!

With Relationships you can do just about anything with anything, inside the model. Naturally, with so much versatile power at your fingertips, its easy find yourself doing the wrong thing. Like a bull in a china shop.

Here’s a recipe to do what you want:

  1. Select all the CP’s of your model and in the Model’s Group folder, label it “All”
  2. Expand the disclosure triangle of this “All” group and set its surface transparency setting to 0%.
  3. Right-click on the model and choose: New Pose Percentage.
  4. A Pose Relationship window springs into view. Notice that this Relationship is also listed in the Action Folder of the PWS? Notice the little goofy red-tinged icon next to the Model’s Shortcut. It’s called “Show more than drivers” or something like that. Click on this icon.
  5. What this does is make the full model available, for tweaking in the Relationship. Here is where you should set the transparency. Find your “All” group that you want to make transparent. Just find it here and grind up its transparency to 100%.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Carl Raillard


#7

Hello again.

You don’t have to create an “All” group, if you don’t want to.
In step 5, it is possible to set the surface transparency of the model itself, to make the entire thing invisible. I didn’t see this, at first, 'cuz the surface info is tucked out of sight in a disclosure triangle. Be sure to set this in the model’s shortcut, in the Pose Relationship, in the Action folder, in the PWS.

Over and out.

Carl Raillard


#8

well I can see someone didn’t buy my book :wink:

but here is how I like to look at it in a nutshell: you have two aspects to a relationship: the driver and the driven. the driver can be any animate-able attribute (like you discovered with the transparency) this attribute can Drive the properties of any number of other attributes, or even (and this is keen) other drivers!

so think of the Driver as a timeline every discrete value of that property acts as a potential keyframe, on which you can store the properties you want to alter. a bone for instance has three (all rotational relationships seem to be represented as eular for easy editing and comprehension) axes of rotation where each possible combination of those axes can hold different relationship data. this is smartkin.
A pose slider is what is now termed a “user defined” property, this property can be either a Percentage, a Boolean (on/off) or a folder to collect other properties for organization. a Percentage is kind of a misnomer as the values that it can hold can be any range of numbers not just percents. you can change them as you see fit. for instance, to change a rig you might just want say a range of -3 to +3 as this will often be more than enough to swap a rig out (or even less if you like :slight_smile: ) each value can drive a set of sliders to turn on or off constraints and show or hide bones.

And this is just for starters.

the layering and nesting possibilities are mind boggling. for instance: I have a character with Hakama Pants, now I drive the initial surface of the pants with cloth simulations using Dinocarl’s suspension CP techniques. is it perfect? not yet. now I need to distort the cloth shape based on the motion of the leg (since I don’t want to rely on collision detection) I do this by taking a bone and orienting it to the leg, this is then lagged by one frame (giving me a measure of roughly how fast the leg is moving (ie the further behind the lag bone is the faster the leg moved in that frame) and in what direction (ie away from the lag bone)) I can tell then the difference between those two bones and use it to drive a pose with an expression. the value of that pose in turn can drive other poses that distort the mesh to compensate for the leg motion… is this perfect? no but it’s so close I can taste it :slight_smile: Carl and I have tossed around some ideas but I’ve tossed it on the back burner so I can work on other aspects of the short.

really what you can hook up to what is just fantastic, and it’s all pretty visual… as artist friendly as I’ve ever seen this particular feature (maya calls it set driven keys and it’s not as much fun to play with :wink: )

Hope that’s a help,
-David


#9

Hey OB ,

Could you post an example of your dynamic pants description ?

a moive and/or some pics ?
it sounds great .


#10

let me finish up this paying gig and I’ll do one better and post a simple example project file.

-David Rogers


#11

while we’re on relationships… could someone tell me how to organise, rename or delete relationship folders in version 10.5? I’ve seen some models that had relationship folders organised for constraints (with relationships sub-directories) and then another set for facial poses etc etc?

eg
Relationships
> Constraints Folder
> > General Constraints
> > FK / IK

> Facial Poses and Phonemes Folder
> > phoneme set 1
> > phoneme set 2
> > phoneme set 3

> Hand Poses Folder
> > Pose 1
> > Pose 2

etc etc?


#12

hooch:

Personally, I wouldn’t use that many folders. Not because I don’t like organization. AM, at least for me, has had a history of royally screwing up projects, chors, and models in which I try and get creative with the folders. I don’t know why. It’s not ‘repeatable’ in the sense that I can send it in. To repro, I’d have to say, “ok. do a bunch of work. now put a bunch of models in the chor. now make a folder for them and drag them all in there. now have AM crash for some other reason. Now reload AM. Viola! the folder is gone (and the 50 models inside)!” or something like that.

I just kind of avoid them or only use a few.


#13

tell me how to organise, rename or delete relationship folders in version 10.5?

It’s all done in the model’s ‘user properties’. Go to the model name in the PWS, toggle the disclosure triangle to reveal user properties.

To make a new folder, right click user properties, new property and choose folder. Name it what you will by selecting it and pressing F2.
You can then drag other poses into that folder there.
To delete a pose, I delete it in the relationship folder, but also here in the user properties.

I too used to have corruption problems with pose folders, but haven’t for quite a while now. Maybe it’s got a lot more stable in v11, cuz that’s what I’m using now.


#14

You guys are insane. Or brilliant. Or both. :slight_smile: Nice to know there are power-users who are actually doing something worthwhile with Expressions.

Thanks for offering to post a sample project, David (whenever you get a minute). I’ll be interested in taking a look at it, too.

Sincerely,

Carl Raillard (The other Carl. Not the Dino one. The dumb one)


#15

please carl… all of our carls are just as good as any carl. we have no dumb carls. we love our carls all the same. We value our carls in different ways, but not in way where one carl is more important the other carls.:slight_smile:


#16

Well then, you can now call me Carl.


#17

Pequod, I’m going to post this in the tips thread for others like me…

I played with Folders at the weekend using your tip as a start and here’s my findings -
1- PLAN WELL AHEAD!! Finish the modelling before you ever start creating relationships in 10.5 or 11.
2- DONT create relationships in the Relationship folder or by right clicking on the model icon IF you want to organise your folders. Drag and Drop doesn’t work for me - at least not on my Mac.

My results were -
follow Pequods advice and expand on the little user properties triangle or right click and in the pop-up choose “new property”

To Organise -
1- Create a New Folder, F2 will allow you to re-name it. For example “Face Poses.”
2- Now for sub folders, right click on that folder and create more as required (“Lip Sync” for example…)
3- If you are now at the level that you wish to create a slider type pose, right click on your latest folder and select Percentage. (DO NOT SELECT RELATIONSHIP YET) You can press F2 and rename this percentage as the pose you require i.e “F V MouthShape Pose”
4- Now you are ready to create the relationship that the slider affects. Right-click on your newest addition and now ask for “New Relationship” A relationship window will pop up and you can work away here. I couldn’t however set varying keyframes as the software only seemed to work at frame 0 but at least my folders could now be organised.

5- If you have further Relationships (mouth-shapes for example) to create in the same sub category, just go back to step 3 and 4 as required. Doing it this way, you get nicely organised folders so that similar poses / relationships can be stored or organised. No more scrolling through hundreds of pose sliders to find that one little pose you need!


#18

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