recognize human modelling

[ianlai]

Its about 80% resemblance now. But its always the last 20% that is the difficult part.

Anyway, you do have the ability to help me in my WIP, should you wish.

i agree with your points and i will fix it

“Anyway, you do have the ability to help me in my WIP, should you wish.”
i really happy if i can help you especially you thing i have the ability to help.
thanks

[ianlai]

You don’t need to be that modest at all! I was very much impressed by the precision in your work, when I first compared your model and the photo under that grid - you have a great sense for proportions and you work with the required accuracy to get a 3d project to a level anyone would be proud of.

…

thanks zokana, thanks not only your suggestion but also your encouragement . i really lag of art technique and still learn a lot from you. you really help me a lot and i really appreciate your work and your personality:bowdown:

i always forget to check the link, i fixed it, thanks

i understand what you mean the upper face part should move forward, your green paintover is great, i will check it out. this is the most concern part

you don’t think the face is a bit long?

about the focal length
do u mean map the reference photo to a plane and adjust the camera focal length to see if there is distortion. it sounds great, i haven’t think about it

[zokana]

“the face is a bit long?”
I don’t think the face is too long. The width varies a lot on the many photos of her. I tend more to believe it’s even longer than your current model (the reason why i did prefer vers 204 instead of 205). But i’m not very shure either…

about focal length
hehe, I never tried it that way. i’ve just compared the degree of the distortion on cheek and right eye (the center area) on a 3d model with different focal lengths. 110-150mm did match the photo quite well.

keep it up, man!

PS::lightbulb oh i forgot to mention this: an other option for the upper head correction could be evtl to push back the lower part (??)

[ianlai]

207
front
3/4 side
left side

the front view is something wrong at the nose height(short) , but it is ok at the side view. i would like to find out why it is, but still have no idea. i think it is critical point, any idea?

[tastyUdon]

hi,

I don’t know if it’s been asked before, but would it be possible if you display the wireframes on your updated model? There’s been lots of improvement on your model. It also seems like the corners of her mouth are kinda sharp.

[ianlai]

thanks ,the wireframe here
wire

[PKD]

Hi Ian,

the wire looks really good. I can see great improvement in your last update 207. She looks more natural now.

Keep it up.

[ianlai]

Hi Ian,

the wire looks really good. I can see great improvement in your last update 207. She looks more natural now.

Keep it up.

but do you think the front have problems?

[zokana]

hm, i’ve seen this coming when you resized the lower head. all those greatly done proportions are lost in front view.
but step by step:

first a paintover, showing the (exact) differences btw photo and model:

[paintover removed]

and here a paintover showing the changes needed to get the same look:

[paintover removed]

the upper head has still to come more frwd (incl lips), and the nose has to be turned up slightly and moved upwrd.(as illustrated)

and now the reason for the problems with the ‘short’ nose:

[paintover removed]

after resizing the lower head, you’ve got too large eyes, incl having them too far apart, which of course you don’t see in side view. If you pull the eyes together and make them a little bit smaller, you’ll get the correct proportions back (shown with the red grid). An other question remains about the width of the whole head, which might be somewhat large now in x-axis too. And there is a danger of getting the head smaller and smaller…

All i can say, you’ll need to get the nose up there and the upper head more in front if you want to depict Erika. (there is no other way my friend)

I hope you forgive me…

[ianlai]

thanks zokana
u always see what i can’t see and understand what i mean
i also worrying that it is just getting the head smaller and smaller
but thanks i will continue to try or use the older 204 one to remake it

but it really mysterious that the nose should be the same length on any view, but it is obvious that we feel the side view have a shorter length

[zokana]

My 2 cents about the wire:
It looks very clean! Some minor changes i would do, regarding the smile you want to get:

[ianlai]

just forget the front, really worse now
want to ask zokana does the nose ok now or too short?
3/4 side

[zokana]

Very good and fast work, ianlai! I feel sorry for you about the step back, but it’s better than getting into endless rescaling…

[paintover removed]

I think the z-axis position of the upper head is ok for the moment, and the nose is finally up there.

Only the mouth seems to be a little to far up and the curve btw upper lip and nose should be more concave. Otherwise a big step frwd!

I think the cheek right beside the nose is important for Erika’s special face - it’s more rounded (check that may be after rebuilding the structure there).

Well done!

PS: i forgot to ask: could you turn the camera about 1-2° down in front view to have the same perspective as the photo i use with the grid?

[ianlai]

you really don’t need to say sorry, you are just giving me the right direction with evidence and u spend your time for me. I only want to say thank you

i will take you advice , but this time i just concentrate on the front
it is really difficult since rescale some part will also affect the side

sure, i will render with another upper camera for the front ,but need some time (in fact i forget to clone a new one for rescaling and the one u see i need some time to remake it:p)

thanks zonaka

[ianlai]

worse update, but hope can get some help
it is obvious that the nose is too short at front, but i have no idea about how to deal with it , the only thing i can do is rescale the front at x axis so that it won’t affect(less effect) side part, but seems not work
still confusing about the mysterious nose

front 1
front 2
side

thanks all

[zokana]

You know what, it’s not bad at all! When opening the front view I saw a likeness for the first time. Well, the head shape looks quite long, but some likeness is already there.

[paintovers removed]

The good news are: the mistakes seem to be (almost) the same in both views! (green lines show the outlines of the photo beside) Mouth is a little bit too high and chin should be higher (incl the whole jaw line). But I wouldn’t correct it fully to match the green lines in front view, because the camera angle is a little lower in your render (it needs 1-2° more x-turn to match the perspective). Correct mouth and chin/jaw just a little bit to match the 3/4 view.

Not really bad news, but some more corrections needed after this rescaling:
Nose mid became too narrow again by rescaling x.
And ears appear now also somewhat small.
A/B: A (top green line) shows the outlines of the top of the head without hair (estimated). I made it, because i felt the head is too high, but it seems to be ok. B (red line) shows a correction i would do (without seeing the reference).

It’s definitely coming!

[ianlai]

thanks zonaka

i also think that the chin is too long and the mouth is a bit large
but i am somehow don’t sure about it because the 3/4 side reference
the mouth is a bit open and it is difficult to confirm the position

the head i also have a feeling of too high, but just thinking about the eye should be center of the head which i have made mistake before

thanks zonaka again
really learn a lot from u

PS i have remade the topology that u mentioned, i understand u want to connect the topology from the mouth to the nose which can simulate the muscle at that part
may be post it later

[zokana]

btw: opening the mouth just slightly is lowering the chin already. Meaning: the chin has to be somewhat higher than on the photo with the 3/4 view.

about the position of the mouth: follow the corners of the mouth - they don’t move that much when opening the lips.

[ianlai]

lower the mouth without move the nose will make the distance very large and quite strange?
resize the mouth larger at y axis will make the lips too thick ,still need to find a solution

i have checked my mouth that when open the mouth, only center of the upper lips not moved, the corner will move down a bit

[zokana]

yes, you are right about the lips; but corners move just slightly, while the upper lips can be stretched frwd and up, especially when a girl wants to look sexy when being photographed …

about the nose: i wouldn’t move it down at all for the moment.
Just follow what you see. If it doesn’t look the same after the correction look for other reasons you didn’t noticed before. try to analyze instead of interpreting