recognize human modelling

[Scote]

Did you use a ref photo for that lighting?

[ianlai]

Did you use a ref photo for that lighting?

if u ask about lighting then no, don’t have a specific one
but the pose is from here

[zokana]

light test

not sure the reflection u mean
i add the mid gray ground

light color change to 255 224 141 more orange color

Okay, this is a big step forward! Reflections from the window sill are still missing though (they would be rather strong, especially from below on her négligé!!) Fix that and add a single fill from the front, somewhere from slightly below (power ca. 33%), and maybe slightly blueish/cyan to balance the warm light from the outside. And show the result with hair this time (to see whether an additional hair light is needed or not)

[Scote]

I gather some pictures for you… Maybe it will help depending of your time of day:

[ianlai]

can u explain more about the reflection?
there is reflection of the body on the glass?

négligé mean clothes?

[ianlai]

to Scote
thank you very much
all are dramatic lighting

[zokana]

can u explain more about the reflection?
there is reflection of the body on the glass?

négligé mean clothes?

I mean the WHITE surface of the environment, which should bounce (reflect) quite a lot of light. Silk and skin are the two materials ‘taking’ those reflections (and re-reflecting them again) >> 1. Silk is highly reflective, so the the reflections coming from the white paint of the wood will be more visible. 2. Skin isn’t that much reflective as silk, but it will show those white reflections as well. AND: skin tends to reflect different colours than white silk for example. Therefore interesting could be to try cyan reflections on the skin material.

négligé = her dress (nightgown)

[ianlai]

spend many times more than i expect

the light on the last post , there is only sun, i forget i turn on the light.
although it is turn on in viewport, it actually not render
so i re-post all the thing,
i think what u mean about reflective is diffuse bounce light, i add it this time

i spend most of the time to solve the problem on the hair, there is sharp shadow on the surface that is facing away the light source.it is especially sharp when there is a sun .another problem is some color shifting problem on the sharp light. the face that is burn over the sunlight , when add the shadow of the hair, it shift to a unnatural dull green color.

sun only
1st light
2nd light

hair

green shift

intensity is what u mentioned and u can see the color of the light
but i am not sure the position u mentioned about adding a light at the front . the 2nd light is what i guess the position

set up

thank you for suggestions

[zokana]

Good work, ianlai! Your results are very interesting. The sunlight is quite perfect! Most i like your first render with the sunlight only - the mood there is very nice, almost a pity to spoil it with too many fill lights. So i suggest to:

1. dim the fill from the back >> try it with not more than 8-10% power (its colour is ok).

2. The blueish colour of the fill from the front is giving very nice reflections on the skin, but the light is much too strong as well >> turn the power down to ca. 10-12% (direction seems to be ok).

The hair isn’t the ultimate thing yet, but highlights are fine on it, so forget the hair for the moment.

3. An additional light (probably your last light): nice would be a soft rim light on her back (but not too narrow and not too strong, making no sharp shadows), power max. 50% (hard to estimate back lights) and colour could be slightly green, position ca. shoulder level. The light shouldn’t look like artificial rim lighting, more like some sort of reflections coming from the outside, suggested also to have slightly more highlights on the hair at its rear side. (but it would be helpful to see also a render without this new light - only with the other 3 lights)

And then we can take a look at your BG.(but don’t use it yet for your renders)

[ianlai]

light test

13% for the back light
10% for the front
the rear light 50% from outside the window at her back

don’t u think it is quite dark?

[zokana]

light test

13% for the back light
10% for the front
the rear light 50% from outside the window at her back

don’t u think it is quite dark?

No, it isn’t too dark at all imo, getting almost too bright actually. One of the secrets of ligthing is to not illuminate everything (especially in 3D).

Here a PO, showing the targeted mood (except face >> see point 4 below):

Suggested adjustments:

1. the new light is cool, but it could be more green.
2. try to eliminate that strange shadow on the shoulder.
3. a tiny bit more reflections from below (as shown on the PO).
4. PLUS: an additonial small spot to get the shadow area on the face brighter: ca. 1 m from the head, same direction as camera but more from above (ca 45º), pointed at her forehead, power ca. 10-15%, colour neutral white (or slightly magenta/purple to add more colour to the hair at the forehead), soft shadowing.

and show a high quality render this time (without hair) to see how those reflections behave and how the body is ‘formed’ by the lighting (with white BG).

edit: forget the mentioned issue with that shadow on her shoulder >> the window frame will need anyway some adjustments (the frame is partially much too thin), but focus on the lighting for the moment.

[ianlai]

light pose

the light is set as what u mentioned
i lower the fill light bit to make the reflection u asked, but seem not much effect
i don’t know should i increase the number of diffuse bounce (2 diffuse bounce now .ie the light reflect 2 times) or increase more ray

i changed to increase more ray from the render setting (FG point)
actually there is template. i used draft previously, now i use low quality
1500x1125 with low quality FG point need 2 hours

the scene is brighter, so i need to lower the fill light intensity?

want to ask about the color of the light, how to decide using which color?
first light u said add some warm color, then the second light use some blue to do color balance, but why need a green color for the 50% back light?

[zokana]

light pose

the light is set as what u mentioned
i lower the fill light bit to make the reflection u asked, but seem not much effect
i don’t know should i increase the number of diffuse bounce (2 diffuse bounce now .ie the light reflect 2 times) or increase more ray

i changed to increase more ray from the render setting (FG point)
actually there is template. i used draft previously, now i use low quality
1500x1125 with low quality FG point need 2 hours

the scene is brighter, so i need to lower the fill light intensity?

want to ask about the color of the light, how to decide using which color?
first light u said add some warm color, then the second light use some blue to do color balance, but why need a green color for the 50% back light?

Concerning the choice of colours: it’s partially a personal choice and partially experience. Neutral white light you’ll probably never find in reality. The colour of the light depends on too many factors to explain them here, but the keys are mainly: type of the light source plus colour and volume of the reflective surfaces. Fill lights try to fake reflections to look natural, but they can also balance the colour mood. Accent lights try to accent the existing colours.

Meaning for your work:

Sunlight: is generally a warm light - in the morning more yellow and more reddish in the evening. There are lists of its colour temperature in books about photography, and some rough values also at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature The colour temperature at noon is much colder, and mostly slightly magenta.

The first fill light (the ‘main fill’): should be set first by using a similar colour to the keylight (the sunlight in your case) to be able to judge its value. But then you can change the colour. Quite common to use a “complementary color”, but in your case i thought that the interior should have a warm appearance, giving it a cosy feel.

The second fill, coming from the front below: set to blue as complementary color, trying to give the lighting some “colour brilliance”, meaning: a variety of colours and not only warm hues, plus stretching a bit the colour palette between shadows and highlights (which is important on skin for example).(could be just a tiny bit more blue on your render)

The second back light: green to fake the strong green reflections, coming in from the greenary. (the amount of green seems to be ok, but it will have to get finetuned when having the final BG)

The accent light on the face: magenta to address the hair colour, to make it stronger and to not have just a boring brown there.

Concerning your render:

It’s basically your work, so it’s up to you how bright you wish to have it. But keep in mind that the most common mistake among 3D folks is an overall illumination while wishing to show everything of the model. The result is quite the opposite: too much light will wash out all details on the model and it won’t look much natural, but boring.

I’ve no idea how you’ve got the current brightness, but it’s definitely too bright in my eyes. The reason could be a too wide radius of the new light (the accent light on the face) which should be limited to the head. And/or the fills (fill 1 and 2) are 50% too strong, at least. Highlights on the iris are quite ugly btw. >> try to raise the new accent light (head only), so it won’t mirror on the iris. And also the light from the right is making a badly sharp light in the eye.

I’d suggest to go for a dark mood, for lionhearted darkness with subtle fill lights, touching tenderly her skin (instead of making her look like sitting on stage). “Tenderly” is basically the motto for outstanding lighting.

And please show a high quali render again.(needed to see skin details)

[ianlai]

thank you for your details explanation
but what u mean about high quality about skin details
u mean some close up for some part? or higher resolution?
i may disappointed u but it is what the final shader for skin
the texture details had been discussed

[zokana]

thank you for your details explanation
but what u mean about high quality about skin details
u mean some close up for some part? or higher resolution?
i may disappointed u but it is what the final shader for skin
the texture details had been discussed

I’ve meant the same render size and quality as the last one. The material settings of the skin one can only judge when having the definitely final lighting. But it seems to be quite ok (some minor doubts i have regarding the sss settings, but let’s see first what happens with the lighting)

[ianlai]

light pose

i change the direction of the fill light in the front , move it to the front at the foot sole
lower the sunlight a bit while make the shadow sharper

thanks for suggestions

[zokana]

Yes, reflections on the eyes are better now. The sunlight could be warmer (especially when having such a low position. BTW: the light on the necklace is very nice!). Main issue is still the fill coming from the front: IMO much too strong.

[PKD]

Much improve, but its a pity her face are mostly cover in the shade.

I do not know how much time you intended to still work on this project, but the dress need more work in my opinion. Do you use an actual dress reference, because it looks very artificial at the moment, particularly the black stripes, & the transparent part of the dress at the thighs area.

The other thing is the bending of the right knee which I have already mention, which need a folding line.

[ianlai]

light pose
some how it relate to my monitor problem , i need to turn the monitor to low brightness in order for the eye to be comfortable

clothes
come from this,white satin is difficult because as i research, it need some black color to make the reflection realistic , but it easily make the clothes become silver
may be a red satin is much simpler
but if u talk about the clothes with same pose then i don’t have it

i simply do a screen capu can see the bending on side is obvious
when rotate to the position with the camera, it is not appear, may be need a longer bending line .but compare to the reference with this stronger lighting, hard to say

[zokana]

The result isn’t bad actually, needing only some little corrections here and there… Made a test to see how it behaves with your BG:

First the BG which will need heavy PW to get a cool morning mood and to not make the picture look too busy. It will have to be much brighter, warmer, and finally also somewhat blurry, especially toward the back (to fake some DOF). My quick editing of the BG: (it could be done much better of course…)

Your original render (to compare at the same size):

The edited version without BG: (you can see how extreme the colours look like without BG)

The original render together with BG:

And the edited render plus BG:

Changes aren’t that extreme, except of having strong colours. So i suggest:

1. … to raise the power of the light on the face (the last accent light). The value is hard to judge (ca. the brightness shown on the PO).

2. PKD is right a bit with his crit concerning the shadow on the face, but the shadow has to be there to look natural. So i suggest to add an additional light, illuminating only the head from the outside (almost the direction of the sunlight, but slightly closer to the camera) to soften that shadow line on the face (as shown on the last PO) - power rather low, plus smooth shadowing. (softening the sunlight doesn’t work, because you need sharp shadows on the window sill… so a little ‘cheating’ is necessary)

3. The sunlight will have to get A LOT warmer.

4. And i’d reduce the 2nd fill (coming from the front below) once again slightly (as shown on the PO). You could play also with its colour which will have to get probably somewhat warmer to get something like the shown result.

The green light and also the first fill seem to be ok.

And a question concerning render quality:

Why do you have such stripes on your render?(also the shadow line looks ‘eroded’ - not continuous). The usual reason (as far as i can tell from my experience with other tools) is low shadowing quality of the light. Can’t you do something about that?