I just want to say I just want to express my thought to increase the diversity of appreciation ways … I hope everybody don’t treat me as a freak or an enemy that against the whole community.
I am glad that it is a good constructive discussion end up.
Dick Ma,
and what’s about the last image, with the logo on the bolt?
i made it just to show u what’s for 3d photorealistic renders could be used, couse u’ll never be able to take such a photo…
My Opinion of the last image, that showing the logo, is that the logo isn’t have a weathering effect. It is a bit odd for the whole scene and it really shows the disadvantage of using the 3D photorealistic renders without manupulating the textures… the rendering result is too perfect that it doesn’t look possible in reality and the photo-realism effect is decreased.
Sorry, I have to take a nap and I would like to end up here.
Dick-Ma, and all else…
Art is the expression of a persons mind, what they see, dream, feel… We all know that there are many forms of art, those of us serious about 3D are drawn to the graphic arts, and the technicality and challenge of 3D is what keeps us enthralled. You said something about the difference between just taking a photo and rendering this wonderful image. The difference is that I can explain in under an hour all a person needs to know to take decent photos. By contrast, a scene even as simple as this is a challenge, drawing on many different disciplines. Sculpting, painting, cinematography and photography as well as physical sciences.
The end result is important, by the driving force is the quest for perfecting ones technical skill.
To see the difference between photo and 3D works, I challenge you to step up and submit your works. It’s OK to contest and debate, but you must have a base for your argument.
Prove your point.
Congrats Arseny, this is the longest thread I’ve
seen. 
the problem with “art” and many other things as well is that…
You can please some of the people some of the time, you cannot please all of the people all of the time:hmm:
not trying to be rude or anything, just a truthful review. from your site, i would say you’re an average modeler, but a top notch texture/skinner and lighting engineer.
AMAZING WORK
you should send it to spluterfish! its a must in his gallery!
can told me something about your pc configuration and render times?
Originally posted by durbdk
[B]Dick-Ma, and all else…Art is the expression of a persons mind, what they see, dream, feel… We all know that there are many forms of art, those of us serious about 3D are drawn to the graphic arts, and the technicality and challenge of 3D is what keeps us enthralled. You said something about the difference between just taking a photo and rendering this wonderful image. The difference is that I can explain in under an hour all a person needs to know to take decent photos. By contrast, a scene even as simple as this is a challenge, drawing on many different disciplines. Sculpting, painting, cinematography and photography as well as physical sciences.
The end result is important, by the driving force is the quest for perfecting ones technical skill.
To see the difference between photo and 3D works, I challenge you to step up and submit your works. It’s OK to contest and debate, but you must have a base for your argument.Prove your point.
Congrats Arseny, this is the longest thread I’ve
seen.[/B]
Is it making critique is just limited to some sort of people that has great work or portfolio backup him or herself, or being famous so that he or she can be the “standard” to prove it is a good work or not. Can a passing-by or even an outsider make a critical comment? I am afraid that he should be torture for life if he cannot face those critical comment.
Here I am not to face off him and prove everyone that my work is better than him. I think it is childish behaviour for me if I take your suggestion by posting a better image to challenge him.
I believe my critics is solid enough with real facts and analysis support. Look at the post that I wrote about Andy Warhol. I really hope that someone can teach me the POV of appreciating the Nuts and Bolts in other aspects instead of just technology backup.
Hi There Dick Ma. I agree with you in some parts.
I agree with you about the “why to try to replicate the reality”. I personaly, don’t like to run after the photorealism, but it’s a way to follow.
I prefer much more to create my own “realist”, or style-look to just replicate something that already exist. I think that this is a personal choice of each 3DArtist.
The fact is, realism is not the target of CG. Realist is just one of the many ways to show an idea. Some guys take photos, some guys draw, some guys do 3D Stills.
Your right, in my opinion when you said that's many time is easier to just take a photo. If you will not distort the reality, but just replicate it, its a more technical challenge than artistic challenge. But i will not try to judge if something is art or not, and i don't thing Arseny is trying to prove that his pic is Art or not. I think he just posted it here, and is wainting for C&Cs.
I would like to remember, that as working as a professional 3D ARtist, everybody will need, from time to time, to made something that looks realistic enough to looks real to an major audience. Like Cg Effects for Films.
So. We need to study and to give some value to this kind of study. As i said, i need to know how to do it, but it's not my "style" or something that i am looking for to put on my reel. But it's my personal choice. Some other artists live to reach the reaslism on CG. Because they like tech challenges. I cannot Judge them. But i can say that realistic is not the "perfect state of art" for CG, for me.Personally I really like the image and feel all this crap about it not being art is pathetic. Who even cares whether it is art or not? The forum is “Gallery/Finished Work:3d”. I dont see any mention of art there…
Anyway would it be possible to tell me how you modelled the thread please?
thanks for the wire, but the be diferent one proves it anyway you cant by a screw with your logo imprinted on it. Great work. The be diferent is the best the others are pointless besides for realism. great work great realism.
Originally posted by Arseny
You really did take a different approach to posting a 3d render on CGtalk Arseny. Look at the commotion that your image of nuts and bots caused. I like your style.
plaguelord,
My comp is P4, 2,65 ghz, 1 gb ram, radeon 9200 video card.
rendering time approx. 2 hrs per 800x600 image
Hmm… Great work…
But, maybe I will be kicked out for that…
To me, metalic bolt are not the hardest things to medilse or render… Almorst with such dof. Thats true this render is amazing, but actually with actually’s softs we have, its not impossible…
If prefere the cars on his website…
But I agree that’s its a great work.
Just a nitpick, but these really aren’t “bolts” at all, bolts accept a nut, or thread into a tapped hole, by definition. These would be “screws”.
As was mentioned, the modeling of the threads is just plain incorrect. Threads like these are cut by a machine that forms a v-groove, the depth of which is accurately defined. There are surprisingly close tolerances in the manufacture of fasteners such as these. There are some screws whose threads are manufactured in a form that loosely resembles these, but their use is limited (plastic assemblies and such), and they are rarely seen outside of children’s toys.
Originally posted by 3donline
[B]I have a little different opinion about some posts here. I think, that unfortunatelly, MANY people on CGTalk Forum and other foruns are loosing their mind, thinking that we need to be like “rockstars” hunting fame and glory.Many people here in CGTalk is just looking for to do really impressive and technical works, with unbeliaveble complex modeling just to impress some mattes… I don’t really think that’s the real target of the 3DArtists (my opinion).
So i think that some people on the forum is loosing this simple principle, and if some image is just not extremelly impressive in render, modeling, or everything toghether, they don’t deserve any respect. This is a dumb way to look at images.
If an image is nice and beautiful it’s nice and beautiful. Don’t worry about the modeling complexity.
I think the technical skills and tecnical aspects is very important to study, cause we need then to work, but, the image is the result and the most important.I totally agreed that tne Arseny’s image don’t have nothing so much impressive in modeling or in lightning, cause Brazil renders and shaders helps a lot with a excellent feedback on light and reflections, but THIS IS NOT IMPORTANT. An image is an image. Like an illustration. I prefer images with more creativity, but this image, i guess that’s kind f work to study, like a self improvement study of the artist.
Not an image to be a masterpiece, or to show something more than a good lighting and shading study.Even If it’s a Photo, it STILLS a very nice photo. It’s easy to do, it’s hard, it’s impressive or not ? Whats matter ?
The image is nice and beautiful (for me).I am not a big fan of the extremelly technical image with the MAIN target on the hunting for the first page or just to impress people.
Do your job and let your talent to impress people.I liked your image Arseny. I think its cool. Not because the modeling, the reflections, or the hell shader or render you’ve used. It’s Just nice.
Btw : My english is terrible. Sorry.
[/B]
Marcelo, eu te amo AEUheauheah 
Really, i totally agree with Marcelo when he says that many of the people not only here but on other cg forums are getting totally megalomaniacal about cg work…
Arseny, the new render is even better than the last one man, congrats 
and as a final comment:
MANY of the replies to this thread could be represented by THIS IMAGE:
I think it is a wonderful image! To me thats all that matters. I could care less if it’s technically accurate down to the micrometer. Who in the hell cares. You presented it as an image not as a technical paper on how a bolt is engineered. Some people on this forum need to get their head out of their ass and try and enjoy life and some of its simple pleasures.
I also think the modeling is first rate. That is a very clean mesh in my opinion. Was it modeled in MAX?
Tony
Originally posted by Tony Richardson
I think it is a wonderful image! To me thats all that matters. I could care less if it’s technically accurate down to the micrometer. Who in the hell cares. You presented it as an image not as a technical paper on how a bolt is engineered. Some people on this forum need to get their head out of their ass and try and enjoy life and some of its simple pleasures.
Clients care, and that’s all that matters if you’re getting paid… plus, it’s a hugely detailed image, and if a major detail (in this case it is major, because it is zoomed in so far) is incorrect, it should be fixed, regardless of how good it looks to the untrained eye or someone just plain unfamiliar. I wouldn’t have noticed… but does it matter? If that’s not what it looks like, that’s not how it should be modelled, unless there’s some reason for it.
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