R21 in one month...we'll know


Tyson is almost exclusively responsible for TyFlow, as I understand. It’s his baby, as the name reflects. Previously he was an iOS developer. He’s a young, brilliant guy. It’s a complete long-shot that announcements will involve him…but I can dream.

If we can’t hire him…kidnap him!


Time to panic? :slight_smile:


Or to be ecstatic. I don’t know which to pick! :confounded:


Scenarios on this announcement:

-A new product. That would be cool, especially if it was some kind of interactive 3d tech.

-Acquisition of Insydium or some other hot product. Also cool.

-Debut of major c4d advancements that Maxon have heretofore hidden in their caves? A major performance jump or broad, sweeping upgrade? That would def. work!

-Purchase by Adobe? Mostly negative, but I can think of a few positives, such as tight integration of Substance products, even better AE integration, and the infusion of deep cash.

-Purchase by Apple? That could def. suck as PC future would be in jeopardy and Apple has uneven history w/such purchases. I’d go all in for the Hackintosh route. Benefits could be highly tuned performance with Metal, and possible integration with other Apple tech like AR/VR glasses. Could bring interesting professional opportunites.

-Partnership with Apple? Probably better than buyout, but terms?

Partnership or acquisition by Autodesk? No way. Google? Microsoft? Hard to imagine that…probably a negative. Facebook? I would drop dead. Amazon? Could be ok. Foundry buyout? Yuck.

Big tech companies are still eye-balling future AR/VR so I wouldn’t be surprised if Maxon was considered as acquisition.

OK…what about a merger with the Houdini folks, SideFx. Hmm…

Have I missed anything?

Maybe a world changing wood shader?


The metal thing is a technical cooperation, something that has happened a lot in the past already. Think of Cinema 4D on Intel and 64 bit, both examples where Apple and Maxon worked closely to deliver state of the art technology. So yes, big and good news, but nothing to read to much into.
This whole merger and aquisition discussion should have stopped right after the announcement of Nemetschek taking over the whole of Maxon instead of only having 70%. That was, and is, a clear commitment to Maxon as a part of Nemetschek.
The annoucement will be interesting thoug :slight_smile:


Ahhh the teasing!

On top of the long-awaited and wishfull thinking, I wonder what unexpected curve ball Maxon has in store this time…

Maybe the whole new node system, on top of integrating xpresso, can be used as a compositor?

Or it’s a partnership with Unreal or Unity… for a smoother worklow?


Unreal viewport in C4D for example?

Edit:But that makes the whole redshift RT a moot point…


So this is not about Maxon being bought by X or Z. I’m relieved.
Now what seems highly plausible are new acquisitions similar to redshift but smaller in size.
Insydium has never been so obvious like a low hanging fruit. They have no future alone. The owners should sell now before losing everything.

Any painting suite that they could contemplate acquiring? Mari maybe?!


I know Srek likely can’t talk in detail about this, but it does make me wonder how that would work. Might Apple have made a few of their Metal developers available for six months or a year to assist in porting some code? C4D working well on Macs w/Metal obviously is in Apple’s interests as well as in Maxon’s interest. Apple wants sexy showcase apps to show off their hardware.

And of course the larger question for PC users is what parallel changes have been made to upgrade performance on Windows side.


It is actually not very interesting. Apple simply puts a higher priority on supporting our developers than usual. So we don’t get actual developers but faster and more in depth support. I don’t know the details though.
Cooperation with Apple, and other hard and software vendors, is usually pretty good. Since we are one of the few applications that can really stress current hardware it is always a give and take.


I guess establishing Cinebench helped with that.
With Metal probably would be upgraded.


Srek to the rescue. The thread is saved. lol

I was going to say some kind of monster acquisition (Apple or Adobe buying) was very unlikely and in either scenario would be bad news generally. It’s always possible the buyer let’s the smaller company continue managing their own operations and meddles very little (hopefully that will be the case with Substance / Adobe), but otherwise that would be bad news IMO if it ever happened.

MAXON buying Insydium: I hope not. I don’t get whoever say they don’t have a future without MAXON. For the last five years or whatever it’s been Insydium’s future has been nothing but increasingly bright as they’ve grown their team, made a couple nice acquisitions of their own, and hit an impressive development cadence. If MAXON does nothing and Insydium keeps doing what it’s doing, I see a bright future for them. If there’s no future for Insydium that by definition means there’s no C4D (for some reason). Bottom line, don’t fix what isn’t broken. At this point as a user of both apps I don’t want MAXON to pour a lot of resources into updating their ancient particle systems (that ship has sailed and Insydium’s solution is better than whatever MAXON would do and very cost-effective at same time).

MAXON buying (anyone else): it’s possible but I don’t really see how that will “change the industry” or however the hint was phrased. To me the only thing that changes the industry is some kind of new technological development that is so good, other developers will want to get on board. Some kind of standard for a certain workflow, maybe a new killer module where MAXON is opening up the API, who knows. To me though, when you start throwing words like that around it’s not an acquisition (because people generally are not wowed by same for very long). It’s something innovative and maybe shared.

MAXON buying (another product): I suppose this could change the industry if this product was previously available to lots of Devs but will soon be controlled by MAXON (the opposite of the above example). Not sure what it would be. But that seems to go against the grain of MAXON’s ethic. Witness the Redshift acquisition. That didn’t become “screw you guys, now we’re the ONLY ones with Redshift,” so this scenario also seems improbable.

My best guess: whatever it is will be “cool” but not earth-shattering. See also: all this was a great way to generate buzz and interest leading up to SIGGRAPH. :wink:


I could try to taper expectations so I won’t be disappointed. But…my inner child wants to wonder, hope and dream. I have to let the kid out of the basement now and then.

Even if it isn’t “industry-changing” I suspect there will be enough in the release to make R21 debut a fun and interesting time.


I could try to taper expectations so I won’t be disappointed. But…my inner child wants to wonder, hope and dream

I’m a little torn here.

With each new version of C4D on the horizon, I keep asking myself, “Is this the one that’s going to bring me back into the fold?” I’m the eternal optimist… right up until the announcement. As soon as that happens, I’m usually all just, “Damn. This hasn’t been fixed. That hasn’t been added. This STILL hasn’t been updated. Oh, well. Maybe next year.” It’s a vicious cycle. I was seriously into C4D for nearly a decade, but got tired of uneven or unfocused releases.

Now, I know that many of you might disagree. I totally get that. For me, I just wish that C4D didn’t seem so consistently behind in certain areas. That we’re still talking about the sad state of cloth, pyroclastics, scripting, and so on is almost unconscionable. It’s almost 2020 and there are some longstanding issues that go as far back as R8 or R9.

Still, R21 hasn’t been announced yet. I hold hope - again - and pray that this will be the version that brings me back. I really want it to be.


There is no platonic ideal in the real world. You jump in and swim the currents with a tool of choice…or sit on the shore, wondering.

I have absolute confidence that when R21 is released…something will be missing or incomplete. Imperfect.

I hope you return and find a home again w/c4d. More so…I hope you jump in full-hearted…somewhere with whatever imperfect tool that works best for you. If you find a tool that you love half as much as I love c4d…you’ll be in a good place. One Man’s Opinion. Warm Regards whatever you decide!


There is no platonic ideal in the real world. You jump in and swim the currents with a tool of choice…or sit on the shore, wondering.

I feel ya’. It’s just that I’ve been down that road before. I dealt with their imperfect perfection for nearly a decade. When it’s good, it’s great. When it’s bad, it’s terrible. Usually, it was way more good than bad. However, the bad seemed to stem from a “tail wagging the dog” situation.

I don’t know how long you’ve been on “team C4D,” but my relationship with it goes as far back as 2001. I was even asked to write product reviews for R8-R10. I can tell you, from a big picture perspective, the move to annual releases did a number on how the app is being developed. The release date is now driving development instead of development driving the release date. 12 months is a very short time to put together AND market a new release. It doesn’t give them nearly enough room to innovate as they once did.

I hope you return and find a home again w/c4d. More so…I hope you jump in full-hearted

To a limited extent, I still use C4D by way of Adobe AE and the Lite version. I just need to see more effort on MAXON’s part if I’m going to part with another $4k and enter into some maintenance contract. There are no guarantees in life. You’re right. I just don’t want to spend my hard earned money on something that feels phoned in. You’ve gotta admit. There HAVE been releases where they’ve asked a lot of money for “features” that might have otherwise been inexpensive plugins.

ANYWAY… I’m not going to sh** all over MAXON’s parade. As a non-ADSK solution, it’s important to cheer them on. They fill that space between subscription and open source. As a regular Maya and Blender user, I can see a need for C4D in the market. Good for them for fighting the power and staying the course.

Even if MAXON got its act together and made C4D more consistent and brought those legacy features up to date, I wonder how much further they can keep jacking up the prices. That’s my only lingering concern. This won’t be a concern to studios. However, for indie artists and freelancers, there has to be a breaking point.

We can’t (and probably won’t) return to the days where apps cost $10k+. I only wonder what MAXON’s ceiling for C4D is. Unless they remedy some of those other issues, that MSRP ceiling is going to get lower. It’s happened before. Just ask NewTek. 15 years ago when v8 came out, they had it priced at about $2,800. Just 4 years later and their asking price is down to $900. The CORE misstep and developer exodus send them into a tailspin and they’re suddenly offering v2015 for just under $300. Now at v2019, they’re back up to the $1k asking price from a decade ago.

I guess what I’m saying is that MAXON has to look at NewTek as a cautionary tale. They’re NOT there, but they certainly could be if they’re not careful. NewTek made a LOT of mistakes with LightWave over the years, some quite similar to what we see here. They recovered a lot of lost ground, but have never regained their former status in the industry. MAXON is facing competition from all sides these days. If ever there was time to be acutely self-aware, it’s now.


My sentiments exactly Mate,well stated.
I love My quite Old C4D as a Final Scene Assembly & Rendering tool with many plugins and tight integration with AE.
However I realized long ago that Maxon simply has no interest in even putting forth the pretense of competing in the areas in which I work& play.

Character Animation and VFX

But thats fair enough as they seem very responsive to the needs of their Chosen Demographic
( Motion graphics& Arch/Product visualization)&Mac OS users.


I wonder if the “industry-changing” news isn’t rather about a new business model/pricing structure, with a very affordable (or free) “Apprentice” style licence to reach a lot more new potential users (and fight Blender or Houdini Apprentice along the way).

Another flavour of “C4D lite”, but without the need of an Adobe subscription, for students and indies…

Something that really makes C4D available to anyone (and then makes them upgrade later when they want the fancy plugins etc…)


As long as they don’t go to a subscription-only model or otherwise Maya-fy their structure, that could be interesting. Prime edition for free or something like that. Improbable but that might shake up the industry a bit. As long as they continue to offer a perennial license and upgrade path, that’s the main thing.

Srek has already noted a big merger / acquisition is not the thing in question, so thankfully we can rule out being absorbed into CC and that “pricing structure”. But yeah in their minds, if they release a more capable free version and bridge to various third party apps, they could argue it’s “industry changing.” I’ve seen PR people lie a lot more blatantly than that. heheh

Little more than a week to go. MAXON, feel free to make this release so good everyone says “take my money!” Should be interesting.

Hey maybe MAXON hired some hardware engineers and they’re building their own MPX module for the Mac Pro. There you go! Fits right in with their comments at Apple-fest too. If I guessed right, MAXON owes me free MSA this year. :wink:


The Mac Pro already does: twin Pro Vega II Duo cards for when Redshift runs on Metal later in the year!