R21 in one month...we'll know


So let’s discuss.
-xPresso…r.u. mainly wanting upgraded UI?
-Better animation tools… can you elaborate? What’s your wish?


Yeah, unless they can build a UV editor better than Rizom, and 3D painting better than Substance, it’ll just be another chunk of the app I pay for but never use.

I’d rather they focused on things like the volume builder with native VDB rendering, better modelling tools, a faster viewport (of course) and maybe revisiting some the old modules that haven’t seen any love for a decade, like Hair, Bullet physics and Pyrocluster.


I wouldn’t say the viewport is “great” until the long-standing object management issue has been resolved, but they’ve improved certain aspects of it for sure.

Blender 2.8 in general is looking pretty fantastic and Eevee is a huge part of that. Overall usability of that app is going to improve quite a bit though. While it won’t be C4D-level intuitive, certainly could be argued though that it will be easier to use than Maya or other apps known for painful learning curves. And at the price of free… something all of Blender’s competitors should take seriously when considering their own roadmaps.

I’m cautiously optimistic each MAXON release R21-R23ish will have a “big deal” aspect to it, due to the new core, new materials system, new render tech they’re working with, etc. Even if the big stuff is overhauling existing workflow components, it will still be a big deal to many users.

R21 will be an interesting release year for anyone who gutted out the “new Mac Pro” wait, depending on how “metal-centric” some of the new features or workflows are. Apple has now finally provided the right hardware path (or at a minimum a much better one than relying on a “Thunderbolt cluster”), and at the same time put the price completely out of reach for anyone who isn’t a big studio boss or who is OK financing a computer like it’s a car. Because $5999 isn’t the base, not really. The base is going to start at “what’s it cost to replace the joke RX 580 card with one of the infinity fabric cards” and the answer is probably going to be around $3000. So base is going to be closer to $8999. Start stacking in more RAM, SSD capacity, etc, call it $10-12K for a typical config people will want, probably more like $20K for a really tricked out machine.

What are people supposed to do with that? That’s literally a car. lol So the PC thing is still in play. For those who waited, we can’t be sure of the best course until you see how deeply integrated Metal becomes into our favorite app. So the waiting game continues potentially. Maybe the thing will be to buy a relatively cheap PC now (still better than the rest of Apple’s offerings) and wait to see if Apple gets hammered on its pricing. If few people buy the 2019 Mac Pro besides studio bosses they may well drop the base $1000 and drop the BTO upgrade costs $x00 per item in a year… but I doubt it.


Yep, this upgrade is certainly going cost me, but I haven’t spent any money on Apple desktops in over nine years, so I can stomach it.

Now Metal seems to be the only game in town, I hope devs (and Apple) really get stuck in and devote time to accelerating apps and using the power of the AMD GPUs. With more cores/threads, faster chips, better, multiple GPUs and a faster overall acrhtecture, I’m looking forward to moving on from my trusty (but increasingly crusty) old Mac Pro. I hope by the end of the year I’ll even be rendering with Octane again, or maybe Redshift.

The Mac Pro has served me well but really can’t keep up with what the software is throwing at it, with things like X-Particles, RealFlow, Forester, huge cityscape models and terrains from World Creator – not to mention just plain ol’ rendering. I’m now really excited about the next six months!


My last car did not cost as much.

If 20K is the word, that’s a quite nice PC workstation plus a five node renderfarm in the basement. Or if you go for GPU rendering with multiple graphic cards, it’s three tricked-out PCs.

That’s some price tag for the Mac feeling.


C4D animation tools are quite good as long as you are animating

motion graphics or any other non bipedal
in animate object.(vehicles etc)

Not wishing for myself , as I have long ago built my CA pipeline with

external tools.

Thus My hypothetical wish ,for those patient blokes who will maintain

their MSA’s, would be,at a minimum: ,

A human IK control rig to retarget motion to native C4D rigs
Like Maya and Iclone.

A motion clip system that can align the root of disparate sourced mocap

without having to bother with some bloody manual pivot object.
Like Iclone, motionbuilder, and the FREE Daz studio’s nonlinear

motion system

And with all due respect, buying an emulator from Insyduim to run the
old Character tools literally salvaged from a Deceased mans
“hackintosh” (Cactus Dan) , not a viable solution for many.

A dynamic cloth solver that works for clothing on Characters
Like Iclone Maya ,Daz studio , even the vestigial Poser.

Some manner of native facial mocap or audio based lipsync option that

DOES NOT require purchasing a $900 USD IPhone
( exceeding one years MSA cost),
Like Maya,Iclone ,Daz studio even the vestigial Poser.

With C4Ds’ Python API ,it would not be too hard to cobble a script to
parse The .dat files from the free open source Papagayo lipsynch utility
Like Iclone,Blender

Even Daz studio has Papagayo as one of four different audio based


I know many will say: “it is better to handkey your lipsync anyway.
those audio lipsyncs are all horrible”

Indeed solutions Like Faceware would be ideal

However 3 “good seconds” of hand keyed lipsync animation per
week ,for one man operations with impatient clients ,is not viable,
Thus an automated solution ,as a foundation upon which to build, is a

must in Mid 2019.


I’ve barely dabbled in character animation, so I can’t speak to your points 3DD. As more of a mograph animation guy…I would like temporal F-curves like we have in After Effects.

I’ve found myself increasingly using Signal for this purpose, which works OK.

The timeline is pretty good but needs some modernizing IMO.


Yep that’s about the only “logical angle” I can think of at this point to justify dropping $8-12K on a computer. Basically that unlike all other computers you might buy (Mac or PC) the intention is not to replace it in 3-4 years but 6-8 years. Literally. Then it becomes more of a true long-term investment, in theory spreading the cost out over time / saving money later when you don’t buy anything new. Will still smart to part with that kind of money initially though. Definitely goes against the normal “computer purchasing psychology.” I wonder if they’ll allow car-style financing where you can pay whatever you want up front then the financing and interest is only the remainder. heh


Yeah, so many arguments against the new Mac Pro, so few arguments for it.

Still buying one, though.


Back on topic: now just 2 weeks away from the reveal.


Yeah sorry about that I derailed things a bit there.

We are getting close. Doesn’t seem like it’s been a year since R20 was released but that could be the Einsteinian relativity - aging thing at work (i.e. the older we get the faster time seems to pass).


Was digging around in Apple’s Metal documentation yesterday for the hell of it. One of the things I’m most interested to see is, when MAXON says they’re all aboard for Metal-optimizing the features in their app (where it makes sense, not everything needs to be GPU accelerated), is it going to be a major thing like a batch of features every release, or something more piecemeal.

I remember way back when Adobe started touting GPU acceleration in Photoshop and other apps, it was a pretty random collection where this one thing was OpenCL and this other thing CUDA, and they sort of added one or two a year in that fashion. In the end it didn’t bring a lot of benefit overall except in a few obvious places like video encoding / decoding. Hopefully MAXON’s approach is a bit more substantive in terms of quantity and consistency of how they apply it. Or even just visibility, letting us know where the work went in, big or small feature.


While drooling over the Mac Pro, I was doing the same thing. Pixar has said “We are thrilled to announce full Metal support in Hydra in an upcoming release of USD toward the end of the year,” Hydra is a blazingly fast screen renderer which uses OpenGL – but clearly for the Mac they will be using Metal instead. I wonder if this is something Maxon could use since it’s open source code.


I think we have good chances to see more node stuff. There are quite some nodes in the new material system, that would fit just finde in a compositer and the snapier media handling that was introduced with r18 or 19 would also fit quite well :slight_smile:


I agree. I find my c4d calendar looks like this:
Sept 1: New Version is Released. Play with it and study new features
Dec 15: I finally get all the plugins/scripts updated on new install and start using new version regularly
Aug 1: Next version is announced

The time from full adoption to announcement is 8-9 months for me. Hope to speed adoption process this year.


Maxon sent out an e-mail today about SIGGRAPH…they again mention Redshift and Mac. Hmmm…


Might be ready or getting there, those Redshift Devs work like they are on the colombian marching powder.


Xpresso… Nooooo. like more nodes and probable ability to edit nodes with python. Just like you can edit the node material nodes "I really hate having to write a new node when all I need is to edit a node. ALSO what I hate the most is having to drag things one by one when I have 100 Stuffs. And I would love an auto wire ports that is the best that I think will be great for xpresso


This from the Maxon blog: “SIGGRAPH is right around the corner. Without giving away any spoilers, let me tickle you a bit about what we’ve got lined up for our 2019 show. First off, and most importantly, DO NOT miss our CEO David McGavran’s live keynote on July 30th, kicking off the first day of the conference. Like NAB, when he announced Maxon’s acquisition of Redshift, David has some exciting news to share about Maxon, Cinema 4D and our partners.”

Oh, now what? New apps, acquisition, buy-out? My nerves can’t take it. Time for the ‘Maxon buys Insydium’ rumours to start again…


Since we are just spit-balling here…

In addition to the Insydium, there are always the Adobe buyout notions…and I’ll put on my tin foil hat and roll out another unlikely one: acquisition by Apple.

It’s unlikely, but hear me out on why it’s a possibility:
-Apple will roll out the new MacPro in weeks/months and seems serious again about creative pros
-Apple hasn’t purchased any pro apps in a long time but there is history.
Apple is reported to release VR/AR glasses in next year or so and likely understands the importance of 3d as we move forward
-Maxon and Redshift have been ultra-aggressive with Metal support
-Maxon CEO’s curious statement.*

Usually company spokespeople stay away from preferential language regarding platforms, but …there was this:

"The new Mac Pro graphics architecture is incredibly powerful and is the best system to run Cinema 4D.” — David McGavran, CEO, Maxon

If Apple bought it I suspect they’d ultimately also add a lower end consumer 3d app, derived from the core.

List of previous Apple acquisitions:


I wouldn’t put too much value into a single statement. Perhaps Metal is really superior to OpenGL (I wouldn’t know, I never programmed anything for Metal). Perhaps David just wants a new Mac. Or perhaps he wants to please the Mac customer base. Who knows.

Over-interpretation of lone statements are probably the reason why Maxon was so tight-lipped in the past… there you go.