R21 in one month...we'll know


#1

For many of us a new c4d release is bigger than Christmas. We are now less than a month from Siggraph, where the debut lands.


#2

This site announce a release show for 05 September
https://www.cai-systeme.com/termine-anmeldung.html?dateid=42&PHPSESSID=79d76009e8afcd38892971b1c1a19c7a

Speculating… with improvements they have made in tracking recently and some experiments with scene reconstruction they can go improving the whole UV texturing finally. Imagine the whole thing integrated: tracking, photogrammetry, texturing. Then retopo with instant meshes ported.
Okay i must have drink too much .


#3

Interesting. In the past we got videos posted online the night before SIGGRAPH opened. Then a couple of the show sessions might be about the new version.

This show announcement in your link looks like a formal detailed walk-thru–a week after SIGGRAPH.

I can’t imagine SIGGRAPH will come and go and Maxon wouldn’t announce features of R21. SIGGRAPH opens July 28. We’ll see I suppose if there is a departure from past years…

I agree that UV/texturing seems a high probability, but we’ve been saying that for several years now…


#4

Yes. It is possible this is the show for the release which is usually September and we get most information before in Siggraph.

Edit:
Also with August being the holiday month, they probably are only in final quality control in the weeks from Siggraph to begin of September


#5

Ok, I’ll bite…

I’m betting on:

  • more “volumes” applications with maybe support for gazeous renders natively.

  • Integration of the new nodes system and xpresso,

  • A Denoiser of some sort (if not only for ProRender)

  • Native Redshift bridge/support (but renderer is still third party)

  • Some more multithreading (Sketch and toon? Hair ? Some deformers?)

  • One modelling enhancement: better boolean? Retopo ?

  • One workflow enhancement: upgraded UV tools? or something for the CAD/3D printing or architecture folks…

I’m wishfully hoping:

  • some clean-up in the many material systems…

  • some mocap retargeting improvement

  • hardware/viewport improvements (Ă  la Eevee / Pixelberg / Urender)

I’m wondering:

  • What’s the future for Prorender integration…

I don’t really expect:

  • Anything regarding VFX and simulations, stuff that are covered by X-particles and the likes.

  • A decent Cloth update…

My 2 cents…


#6

Node-based materials!! No, wait… they did that… ummm…


#7

I doubt there will be any native redshift in C4D this time around. And quite frankly, it would probably be bad for the user if they did. The way I see it, Maxon only releases maybe ONE service pack a year with bug fixes and minor updates if we are lucky. The redshift team however, releases a new update in what feels like a weekly basis, and within a year it feels like you have a brand new render engine from what you started with.

If Maxon includes Redshift with C4D, what happens to these incremental upgrades throughout the year?


#8

There will be no issue updating Redshift if it is done to be able to be updated independently.


#9

My hunch is that there might be some sort of promo pricing for Redshift. For example, if you upgrade your service agreement you get 25% off Redshift.

I have a hunch we will see a new pricing model added…subscription or rent-to-own. I sure hope they don’t mess with perpetual licenses…and I don’t think they will.

Maxon always seems to surprise me with new releases. Sculpting surprised me, Fields surprised me, Volumes did, etc. What will the surprise be this time?

I’d like to see improved physics–with cloth and spline physics…in one system. Pls gimmie more symmetry tools, improved Guides, tool overlays displaying measurements and info… UV stuff of course.

I dream of GPU acceleration for hair, Volumes, physics…but definitely don’t expect to see it yet.


#10

They usually announce it on the first business day of August (which I always assumed was for legal reasons), and it seems in the past that that usually is before Siggraph, but this time it’s on the tail end of it, so not sure how they’ll handle it.

  • Vertex Map cache or Fields Cache to bake out growing fields so they can be used over network rendering.
  • A new generator object of some sort (procedurally deleting polygons based on fields would be great)
  • A new deformer of some sort (I’d love to see an Xpresso deformer ala VOPs in Houdini).
  • A new shader of some sort (we’re in desperate need of a Fields Shader)
  • New node system brought over to Xpresso
  • High DPI support for the UI? Please?

#11

Of course there’s this:

“Tapping into the amazing performance of the new Mac Pro, we’re excited to develop Redshift for Metal, and we’re working with Apple to bring an optimized version to the Mac Pro for the first time by the end of the year. We’re also actively developing Metal support for Cinema 4D, which will provide our Mac users with accelerated workflows for the most complex content creation. The new Mac Pro graphics architecture is incredibly powerful and is the best system to run Cinema 4D.” — David McGavran, CEO, Maxon

If Maxon is going to do new optimization for Metal…will they do new optimization on the PC…eg. w/Vulkan? Metal is principally about GPU acceleration… hmmmm…

Is R21 release the “end of the year” ?


#12

We’ve had scenarios before where it was made clear MAXON was working on one thing or another, but there wasn’t enough time to get it done by August, so we surmise it might be a rare EOY release. Never happens that way though, and I don’t think this will be any different.

They’ve probably been working on the “metalization” of some features for a while now so probably they’ll add them to releases one or two at a time / in the least disruptive way possible. Meaning no reason to delay R21 from the normal schedule. And for sure we know any sort of deep integration with Red Shift / Red Shift replacement of other built-in render tech(s) would take a while, certainly longer than they would’ve had since announcing the acquisition… so that’s a long-term thing probably. For the next release or two I suspect it will remain a separate thing entirely though they might continue to build whatever supporting mechanisms already exist to be better.

But I was glad to see David M. make that statement about Metal. The Mac Pro, sure, but it’s so damn expensive I’m not even contemplating it right now despite the fact I waited 6 years to see it without moving to PC . Metal is the big deal though because it allows anyone with a Mac and a decent AMD card (like recent generation iMacs, iMac Pro, possibly even Vega MacBook Pros) to get some real performance benefit. Or any TB3 Mac + eGPU with a good AMD GPU like a Vega VII (or upcoming RX 5700) card. To me that’s the bigger deal. Metal carefully woven through C4D will make the entire Mac ecosystem from the last year or two (and hardware moving forward) way more viable as a platform to get real 3D work done. Hopefully various plugin devs and others follow suit to create a “3D / DCC Metal ecosystem” of sorts.


#13

ICM did you just forgot about that 5 September show presenting R21?


#14

I don’t understand your post.

As I said above, I don’t believe that the Sept 5 show that you linked to above is where R21 will initially debut. I concede my opinion could be wrong.


#15

I mean the part in your Mac post the question you make the “end of the year”


#16

I wouldn’t be surprised if c4d nodes were opened up to all third-party render engines - quote from Maxon blog:

Of course, by the time Release 20 was released, we were already well into development on the next release. The response to the node-based materials UI has been great. We’ve been flooded with requests to make it available for third-party render engines, and we’re working hard to make that possible. We’re obviously engaged with other features and projects as well, but you’ll just have to wait and see what’s in store.

I’m hoping also that it ties in with an updated xpresso refresh.


#17

Vertex Map cache or Fields Cache to bake out growing fields so they can be used over network rendering.

You can use a vertex map in a material and just bake that sequence out. (Not ideal for all situations)
What would a fields shader do? As I’m guessing most things could be piped through a vertex map.

A new generator object of some sort (procedurally deleting polygons based on fields would be great)

You can use PolyFX to do this - < that’s the fastest way.


#18

I do wonder if this is even possible, as not all external renderers may have exactly the same properties per node. E.g. the Cycles nodes details are determined by the Cycles capabilities… using some C4D nodes instead may require additional parameters, or parameters may not be supported.

For Redshift that may be feasible as this renderer is now under Maxon wings, and could be adapted (mutually) to create a common interface. Cycles however is a Blender product which is independent, so Cycles4D could only adapt so far towards the C4D node details…

(Same may apply for other external renderers)


#19

I think it’s more or less understood that 3rd party adaptations wouldn’t necessarily be 1:1 on a functional level. Each may support “all nodes but that one” or “all node parameters but these two” type scenario. Would be pretty much impossible for all parties to standardize on a single set of nodes and parameters in any reasonable amount of time unless there was some sort of standards movement they all joined with that specific purpose in mind.


#20

I think the only thing render engines want is to put their own nodes in the C4D node system respecting the C4D node interface. That is how should be.