R20 expectations?


#1

I know it’s kind of spamming thread and would like to apologies in advance about it but R20 will out this year and it could be nice for everybody (and may be Maxon team to check) to post here their expectations of what it could give to us all. I know that there’s Suggestions Page on Maxon’s site but it seems like not everybody post there their thoughts on what could be nice to have in cinema4D (I did but yet don’t know will it be integrated some day or not). The one other reason I post this thread is because there are many people I see lately who goes away from Cinema4D to other software because of better integrated solutions even if it’s just smaller enhancements for one tool (booleans as an example).

My needs for staying with Cinema4D is rather simple: modern UV tools, better modelling (incl. better booleans) and selection tools.
Don’t think that it’s necessary to have AR\VR addings to have now.

What’s your thoughts?


#2

I don’t have the hard numbers but I’d bet Maxon is gaining more customers than they are losing to other products. I know I’m not going anywhere.

I’ll post my wish list for this version and/or the next:

Beyond the obvious ones we all agree on (-Faster Viewport, UV pipeline complete redesign, Improved symmetry features):

-A Mesh-Fusion type boolean feature would be quite welcome
-Sketch and Toon improvements, esp. multi-processor support or GPU rendering
-Xpresso update
-Deeper Integration and extension of physics systems
-Mograph and mo-effectors for materials (something I recently posted about)


#3

No real idea. Frankly, if R20’s only party trick was to push millions of objects around with billions of polys – and do it smoothly and responsively – that would be enough for me to upgrade.


#4

I dont have any hard numbers either
however there are many who simply stop upgrading/paying the MSA.
Many settle on a version of studio and patch the long ignored gaps with third party plugins an external applications
particulary those who need character animation tools with usable retargeting options, lip synch ,scalability
as well as VFX like fluids.


#5

I would venture to say that those who do serious character animation for a living wouldnt be using c4d as their primary tool of choice anyway, and probably wouldn’t box themselves into the corner of using a 10 year old version of the software either. Unless its for self initiated work as opposed to client work where you will need to be up to date for a variety of reasons…

Looking forward to 20 but with a wary eye.
Overall Im very happy with c4d. It is what it is.


#6

ProRender working on macs with nvidia cards. Would settle for that alone.

ProRender massive speed increase.

Better UV tools.

Something like Mesh Fusion.


#7

Expectations?
I expect to be very sad when I write a C++ plugin using R13 and it won’t run for R20 users like I’ve been doing for the past decade. :sad:

-ScottA


#8

Having the latest version is critical when exchanging actual program native scene files/assets with clients.

Back when I was a Graphic Designer for print, Adobe made sure
we had to update creative suite the very moment our major clients did or our intake of clients files halted immediately.

All of the freelance work I have done for character animation
only required a delivery format
(rendered footage or targas,png’s)

So the version of C4D I am running was rather moot.

Any client, who uses C4D and has frequent projects that
involve Character animation??

Well, those are the people, who themeselves, need to be looking at other character animation solutions to bring such work back in house,
because literally shopping out C4D scene files, with C4D rig,s and expecting others to animate them and send them back is becoming less and less practical as Brian Horgan recently noted in a thread.


#9

It can be a difficult sea to sail on when your coming from a hobbyist and moving into making a living from what you do. As more and more software moves into the rental scheme this put the strain on a individual that is not making money from it, and has not found their direction when they seek the best possible results as a artist yet move into the playing field of commercial work.

I was in such a position where my interest was in character art, but from many aspects such as sculpting, texturing modelling, and rigging for basic pose work at the time. C4D perpetual model works when they also allow the sale of used licences at reduced prices. I think C4D bridges the gap for the character artist where they transition between a hobbyist to a character artist commercially. The scope to add high end render engines opens up the offerings to get the results that are only found on rental only licences base software such as Maya. The other aspect is usability and creative workflows, not everyone is tech savy, yet have great potential as a artist. I agree with you about being a serious character animator, Im not sure where C4D fits in the grand scheme of things, there is some character work being done in C4D for both TV adds, shorts, and smaller scale games. Is it a generalist tool, a artist friendly platform that crosses the line between hobbyist to commercial? i think thats what C4D is with a target at Mograph as its core strength, but C4D keeping its licensing options all be it still very expensive it offers a glimmer of affordability and choice for those who just cant justify Maya’s on going outlay.

I dont regret getting C4D, its all I could afford at the time, and was not sure which direction commercially I was going at the time, plus 3D is somethings that is my way of being a artist on a personal level, not just to make a living with it. I think Maxon can still make it play better with animation workflows, and be a contender for higher end character work, I may just be one of the ones that pushes its boundaries for such things in the coming years.

Dan


#10

+1 to Darth Mole’s comment.

Years ago I posted a comment on this forum labeling C4D “the 85% application”. Maxon seems to have the habit of delivering features that promise much - but deliver about 85% of what should be expected. There are lots of them. I’d love to see some of those become “95% features” - whatever they are. I’d forgive them the last 5% : )

I also think ‘we’ might be expecting a bit too much - but I’d love to be proved wrong. Yes, “20” is a nice round number, but I guess Maxon has roughly the same number of developers working on the product as they did last year, working a similar number of hours. So I don’t expect they’ll magically be able to deliver twice as many improvements.

I’m also a little concerned about the plugin situation. Probably like many of us I have more than a few favourite plugins that won’t make the leap to v20.


#11

See also:
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#12

Maxon pretty much did things backwards when they got bought by a German CAD company.

Instead of working on updated rendering features, new physics (e.g. fluids, destruction physics), powerful new character animation features, game-engine integration and similar, they tried to make C4D an archviz/productviz and motion graphics, broadcast graphics tool instead.

That probably made them tons of money over they years, except that that money did not result in swift delivery of aforementioned rendering, physics, CA, game development and similar features.

If Maxon had done things the right way around, many people bailing out of dying LightWave, Softimage, and now also Max and Maya (the stupid subscription model) would probably have ended up on C4D. Instead, a lot of those people are looking to Blender as their new savior.

A price cut would have helped also. C4D is overpriced by about 1K to 1.5K for what it actually delivers in Studio.

C4D is a greatly usable 3D software that unfortunately delivers vital new CG technology and features about 5 - 6 years after everybody else got them in some form.


#13


#14

Surely that should be Captain Foresight? We’re looking into the future here!


#15

Damn! I have abandoned Vue for C4D and you tell me now that people are moving away from Cinema 4D ? :slight_smile: Aargh!
I agree with all your suggestions, especially about selection tools - I had a short adventure with Softimage - it has very handy/reliable loop selection tools - I miss it in C4D
I have written down all my suggestions for C4D on this webpage http://b0.y0.pl/C4D.htm and I have already notified a guy from Maxon about it.
I am waiting for his response. I hope they’ll use some of my ideas.
Those are mainly suggestions concerning display/interface, component selection, subdivision (dicing, slicing etc…), better bevel - Softimage bevel is once again more robust, in fewer situation it creates bad geometry.
But you are right that about booleans - in C4D, booleans often create faulty geometry - in Softimage booleans produced much cleaner results.

I am using Maxon Suggestions webpage pretty often - also to report bugs.
Since Suggestions web page does not provide any feedback, I wasn’t sure if Maxon developers read it, but a guy from Maxon told me that indeed, they check all those posts and do their best to implement what they can. Also if you are not a beta-tester, this is the best way to report C4D bugs.


#16

@czarnyrobert your website only runs on a 55" screen. On a normal, or in my case a 27" screen, the top menu falls off the edge and the left menu is half the screen. Safari, Chrome, Opera, firefox etc etc.


#17

Not every 3d app has to be aimed towards FX and movies. I work in broadcast and motion graphics and Im happy with Maxon. For animation / FX there is quite a few options in the market.


#18

C4D interaction model is the worse thing.
If they can’t fix it they can’t expect much new users because the mainstream paradigm is elsewhere.
Spline tools is also severely affected by it
Selection/Deleting/Moving with Softimage was very simple. With C4D is a wastage of time not even a way to delete a polygon with points in the scene forcing the artists to repeat the process. This a sort of ballpark for me to see if Maxon know what people do or not.

The only luck some 3D DCC have is that Blender is awkward too, but it is changing and time is running out.

Edit: about R20
The release of some Cineversity plugins shows that C4D is still in the specific tools for this and for that and not as integrated.
Maybe Prod.working ProRender
I expect it to better handling of many objects otherwise would not make sense what they are doing - or should be considered a failure.
If viewport capabilities are not open to other render engines i would also consider it a failure.


#19

@ Birdy, just use Ctrl± keys to scale down the website to your screen resolution and system scaling. (or Ctrl+mouse wheel)

If you have 4K resolution, and display scaling set to 100% then you should get the proper view
If you have 4K resolution but have set scaling to let say 200%, then you need to scale down in the browser to 50%
If you have HD resolution and scaling set to 100% then once again you need to scale down to 50%
Display diameter has no impact - just screen resolution and scaling settings.

Sorry, my web design skills are pretty basic - I looked into the subject how to scale websites to any screen size, but it was too complex.
In future, if this site could generate some income, I could pay someone to make it work on any screen size.

I will try to increase font size, so people using small screens could get a better view.


#20

If youre not great with websites, try an automated system like wordpress. Just enter your content, anme some menus and it handles resizing everything to other screens for you.

If not, generally assume a maximum resolution of about 1280 wide for a webpage, at least then everyone can see it. Keep in mind, most people don’t know about zooming in and out on web pages.